Forums → WEPR → Global Warming

Global warming or not, I do believe that we should pollute less. Do we affect the environment? Of course we do.

I also believe that Global Warming is natural and gradual, and that an ice age will heal the Earth from this warmth, just like "Global Warming" healed it from the freazing cold. That is just nature's natural imbalence.

I believe we effect the world around us, but we won't be the cause of death.

I would have less faith in our government if the DON'T take more dramatic steps to help reduce global warming. I can understand you are saying it is a natural process, and yes it is. But not to the extent of what it is now. It has never happened so fast before, and carbon levels will be much higher than they have ever naturally been in the past. The highest carbon level from the past: 280. What it is now: 380 ppm. The fact is, and yes, even if you disagree with global warming, IT IS A FACT that Carbon levels have never been so high.

It is also a scientific FACT that 10,000 years ago, there was a severe global warming. The ice from the polar caps melted into the ocean, inundating it with freshwater. It is a fact that this caused the thermohaline circulation of the ocean to cease. And it is a fact that the circulatory disruption caused severe consequences of weather on land. And it is also a fact that those sever consequences were that the Earth was thrown into a global ice age.

The salinity of the ocean is already decreasing from the melting of the Northern and Southern polar ice caps. There is no denying that. It is cold, hard science. And it is also science, that eventually, this will disrupt ocean circulation.

You can argue global warming all you want, but the fact is, you don't present any facts that adequately defend yourself. Please, I urge you, take a class on the subject, educate yourself on the issue. I have taken multiple classes specifically on the issue of global warming and I am taking one now in ocean processes, which the temperature of the atmosphere is a big component of.

There is not one self respecting scientist out there that is willing to refute the fact that humans have had an anthropgenic affect in increasing global warming and the amount of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere.

I had like, a bunch of reply and then I bumped something and the window went away. I'll get back to this later.

Carlie, this comment should be merited ^_^
too bad we can't...

well it cant be a lie!

all tyhat ppl that working on it must not have wrong.........

Global warming will happen anyway. We are just accelerating the process.

LISTEN TO AL GORE...WE ARE THE CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING NOT ANY THING BUT US

Greg, not true. Blockhead has the right idea. Global warming IS a natural process, but we are accelerating it and driving the amount of Carbon into the atmosphere to astronomical proportions compared to what it has ever naturally been. And this coincided exactly with, guess what? The industrial revolution! There are age long processes, and annual Carbon processes (I just had this on an exam today where I had to explain this, very clear in my mind still ).

This same trend had been measured all over the world, and this is just the scientific data that has been collected. This is not making up numbers to make it sound like global warming is happening. This is hard, scientific data. I introduce you to, The Keeling Curve!


Carbon in the atmosphere has specific trends. It increases and decreases certain amounts naturally with global warming and global cooling. There is also an annual trend, that reflects the life cycle of annual plants on land. Annual plants take up CO2 in the spring, and that CO2 is then released back in the atmosphere when the plants let their leaves fall and decompose in the fall. That is why the line is all squiggly, that accounts for the annual trend. However, as you can see by just looking at the graph, it shows the very clear trend that Carbon dioxide overall, ignoring annual processes, has risen dramatically.

The Carbon in the atmosphere has never exceeded 280ppm before man. Now, as you can see from the Keeling Curve, it is pushing 380ppm. And we keep pushing it even higher and higher, at a rate of about 2ppm a year. Just imagine what it will be like if we don't start reducing our Carbon footprint! We will double 280ppm in no time.

You can not make that dramatic of a change to the atmosphere, something that for billions of years has been in a natural balance, and not expect it to make a change.

I have a contrary to your Idea, Carlie. Obviously, as we all know, we can't change the Earth. BUT Just because we may have accelerated Carbon dioxide to near an amazing 380pp. In the whole grand scheme of things C02 is near [According to a chart I just opened up] .03% of earths atmosphere. Now, pushing that even to an "Alarming" rate as some scientists say of 1% will NOT barely even increase the natural flow of the earths temperature. Maybe speed it up 15 years who knows. :P Either way, Even though many scientists say it may be a cause. Theres the giant "MAY" and theres the other giant part some people don't realize is that other big scientists generally oppose it. Many say the prediction is being made to early.

It is also a scientific FACT that 10,000 years ago, there was a severe global warming. The ice from the polar caps melted into the ocean, inundating it with freshwater. It is a fact that this caused the thermohaline circulation of the ocean to cease.


Oh, by the way, Nothing is a fact without recorded proof. 10,000 Years ago Thermohaline circulation could have been EXACTLY how you said it. But, on the other hand, 10,000 Years ago the Oceans could have been widely different doing something completeley different. Scientifically proven -- The other thing is that a rise from 280pp to 380pp in the grand scheme of things is nothing more that a bit of...rubbish. [I hate that word xP]

Yet, megamickel, a carbon tax would be smart. It would only tax the ones that use it, which are people rich enough to pay it and won't be affected. Which could only help our government and people by putting more money out in the world and not stuffed in private accounts.

I will get to your initial post in a minute, but yes, there is recorded proof. It is called the science of Geology

They can tell by sediment dating, ice coring, etc. what past atmospheric compositions, temperatures, and currents were like. Oceanography specifically deals with the ocean aspect of this.

The Science of Geology is amazing, and all of this can tell by peaces of rocks, which could have whoever knows what in them that may be different than now. Also, Oceanography is based on the way the ocean works and why waves and tides go the way they do. I've yet to see something groundbreaking from Oceanography about weather.

@ Armed_Blade, going back to your previous question... say for instance you were right, and that more CO2 in the atmosphere would not have a dramatic effect on temperature. Even if it did not effect temperature, an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is still not healthy for our environment. I don't know how scientific you want me to get about this... but I will go with very scientific! Because I know my ocean processes.

Earth has 3 major natural Carbon reservoirs, or places that can store Carbon. The atmosphere, the ocean, and land. These reservoirs have always been in a delicate balance. That is, before industry came along. The additional Carbon added to the atmosphere adds up to somewhere over 7gt. Only about 3.5gt of this goes into the atmosphere. This is because the rest of it is being absorbed by the ocean and land, which try to take in the extra CO2 to try and buffer the effects of too much CO2 in the atmosphere. The thing is, this messes up the balance of both the land plants and the ocean. Now I will go into the ocean specifically...

Try to follow along, there are many things that follow other things, and I will try to make it as clear as possible...

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In the ocean, there are many organisms that Carbon to grow. For example, corals secrete calcium carbonate shells, and that is how they are able to grow. These hard exteriors, as well as ones that other organisms develop, are made using Carbon.

When CO2 is absorbed into the ocean, it reacts with the sea water to initially create Carbonic Acid. Normally, this is in a balance. However, with too much CO2 going into the ocean, the amount of Carbonic Acid is increasing, which is making the pH of the ocean decrease (become more acidic).

There is something called the CCD (Carbon Compensation Depth) in the ocean, which depends on pH. Below the CCD, Carbon dissolves, and is no longer available to form in sediments, or available for organisms to use it. So below this line, Carbon dependent species cannot live. The problem is, with the amount of CO2 increasing in the atmosphere, this increases the amount of Carbonic Acid in the ocean, which then makes the ocean more acidic. This whole turn of events actually makes the CCD become shallower. As a consequence of that, you can imagine that all of the organisms that lived below that line that depend on CO2 are out of luck. So there are deeper sea organisms and corals, that with the CCD rising, are not able to get Carbon anymore to build their shells.

It has already started happening that huge colonies of deep sea corals are being wiped out, because the form of Carbon that they need is not reaching them, because the depth of the CCD has now risen above them.

So as you can see, with this big and long series of events, even if increased CO2 doesn't increase our Temperature (which it is), it is still dramatically effecting natural processes all over Earth. This is just ONE example of the bad effects of too much CO2 in the atmosphere.

I hope this was somewhat clear, and if not, I can answer any questions. But the major summarization here is: Too much CO2 in the atmosphere effects how Carbon based organisms can live and use Carbon. Increased CO2 in the atmosphere is largely affecting this cycle, and not in a good way.

Wouldn't have guessed that global warming was killing off deep sea corals, eh?