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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

Here's one that will get the AG forum going...

As a precautionary system, many schools across the nation have been searching lockers to eliminate the school of weapons and drugs that the students had. The schools had probable cause, meaning that they did have some piece of evidence that says that particular person had illegal objects. This caused an outrage with students and parents alike, saying that this was an invasion of the student's privacy. This case was taken to the supreme court, who ruled that the schools did have the right to search.

Now, what does AG think?

  • 273 Replies
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

I usually use my locker to store my papers and effects. In fact, I have to do so. It's a rule.

German3945
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German3945
996 posts
Nomad

How can you say that it's a matter of security and then go on to point out how it doesn't help anything?

it's a matter of security which works for those not aware of how corruptible schools are.
it works, very well actually, it just needs proper execution.
Funny - no they don't. Fourth amendment.

Funny - yes they do. Supreme Court Ruling. Byebye fourth amendment in schools.
The Supreme Court, in a New Jersey case decided in the 1990s, ruled that school officials don't need a warrant or probable cause, but merely a ''reasonable suspicion.'' Court rulings suggest that students should have no expectation of privacy in school lockers when the school district both owns and controls the lockers and has a written policy describing this ownership. In Zamora vs. Pomero, it was determined that the search of Zamoraâs locker was not a violation of his Fourth Amendment right. (639â¦, n.d.) Even using dogs to search lockers and students is not an invasion of personal rights as established in Doe v. Renfrow.
Link to a page quoting Supreme Court decisions and mass decisions of smaller courts.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

I am legally compelled to attend school. As such, the government provides school free of charge, but only for the public school in my immediate area. This school forces me to use m locker as storage space. It also searches lockers. This means that the government is forcing me to sign away my constitutional right.

Court rulings suggest that students should have no expectation of privacy in school lockers when the school district both owns and controls the lockers and has a written policy describing this ownership.
As seen here. It doesn't matter how well described the policy is, the fact of the matter is that I am legally obligated to to sign away a constitutional right. That is illegal and immoral.
celerylipstick
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celerylipstick
51 posts
Nomad

don't u have to be a citizen to have a constitutional right? how old to be a citizen?

German3945
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German3945
996 posts
Nomad

As seen here. It doesn't matter how well described the policy is, the fact of the matter is that I am legally obligated to to sign away a constitutional right. That is illegal and immoral.

It is not illegal.

Supreme Court decision. Understand? Supreme Court decision = not illegal, not against any constitutional right.

Also, you are not forced to use a locker, the government provides you with the schooling for free and it is a governmentally-run building. From the Supreme Court decisions, you no longer have that constitutional right which you claim is being signed away -- it's inexistent.

don't u have to be a citizen to have a constitutional right? how old to be a citizen?

No.
Also, you only have to be one-two seconds old as long as you're born on US soil to be a citizen.
valkyrie1119
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valkyrie1119
1,720 posts
Nomad

Right to search Lockers?


Yes. It's the schools property, plus it gets rid of any drugs that might be hiding in them. Honestly, your school locker should not be a place where you put your personal stuff. It's a school locker.
Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

Also, you are not forced to use a locker, the government provides you with the schooling for free and it is a governmentally-run building.
Yes, but I can't say I don't want schooling. I'm not allowed. I must attend school. If I go to public school, I must use my locker to store books, bags and other personal effects.

The Supreme Court, in a New Jersey case decided in the 1990s, ruled that school officials don't need a warrant or probable cause, but merely a ''reasonable suspicion.''
Doesn't this explicitly state that they don't need probable cause, as outlined in the fourth amendment? If the supreme court ruled that this isn't illegal, the supreme court is wrong.

I also find it curious that you did not refute my claim that it was immoral. I assume that this is because you didn't really feel like debating the point.
valkyrie1119
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valkyrie1119
1,720 posts
Nomad

What's to debate? What kind of personal stuff are you guys putting in your lockers? The locker isn't eve technically your property and school is not even a safe place to keep valuables.

dms269
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dms269
49 posts
Shepherd

Yes, but I can't say I don't want schooling. I'm not allowed. I must attend school. If I go to public school, I must use my locker to store books, bags and other personal effects.


Why must you use a locker? To they force you to place your books inside of them? More than likely, you choose to use the locker to help you out so you don't have to carry your all of your books around school. The school isn't forcing you to use the locker, merely providing it as a resources for you that you can either use or not.

Doesn't this explicitly state that they don't need probable cause, as outlined in the fourth amendment? If the supreme court ruled that this isn't illegal, the supreme court is wrong.



Here is the case:
http://www.oyez.org/cases/1980-1989/1983/1983_83_712
valkyrie1119
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valkyrie1119
1,720 posts
Nomad

They have the right to search lockers

/thread

Kronikkitten
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Kronikkitten
126 posts
Nomad

If there didnt ther would be a lot more drugs and wepons at school.

Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

Why must you use a locker? To they force you to place your books inside of them?
Yes. Not exactly. I must bring a certain amount of stuff, such as books. I'm not allowed to store it anywhere but my person or my locker. I can't have all of the stuff I am obligated to have throughout the day on my person at all times, because some areas and classes I must attend require me to not be carrying a bunch of stuff, or even anything not directly related to the subject matter. So yes, I must use my locker.*

If there didnt ther would be a lot more drugs and wepons at school.
[citation needed]

*Assuming I even go to the school about which I'm talking. No personal information.
chitown
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chitown
1,614 posts
Farmer

I think that the schools should be allowed to seach lockers only if they are suspicious of drugs, weapons, etc. being in the locker. My school searches lockers the way i said it. Lockers are also really easy to break into, my friend had something stolen, or she lost it. I don't know about that.

German3945
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German3945
996 posts
Nomad

I'm not allowed to store it anywhere but my person or my locker.

So if you don't want it to be merely glanced at while they search lockers, then carry it with you.

They don't go and read your books and spit on them. They look for guns and drugs, quickly and efficiently, disturbing as little as possible. This is not a warranted house search being done by a notoriously corrupt police force.
Doesn't this explicitly state that they don't need probable cause, as outlined in the fourth amendment? If the supreme court ruled that this isn't illegal, the supreme court is wrong.

Later citations in the paragraph I stated and in the link noted other decisions where schools could search lockers whenever and nearly however they wanted.
I saw many, many other sites which also told that there were multiple Supreme Court decisions allowing the free search of lockers, but since they didn't specifically state a Supreme Court decision I'll go a-rummagin'.

So the "reasonable suspicion" for personal belongings was New Jersey vs T.L.O.
In this article, they speak of a Supreme Court ruling under which random searches of lockers was upheld as legal. It goes further to say that "officials had warned them in a school handbook that the school owned the lockers and might search them at any time," meaning that they should have known it wasn't smart to keep a loaded revolver and cocaine in a spot where the school tells you they regularly check.
If the supreme court ruled that this isn't illegal, the supreme court is wrong.

The Supreme Court's word is the final word. If you want to dispute it, you can go sue your school for taking a glance at your books and not finding guns, explosives, or drugs, and then closing the locker back up, then after it gets shot down by your state gov't you can appeal it all the way up to the Supreme Court. Otherwise, you don't get to dispute it.
also find it curious that you did not refute my claim that it was immoral. I assume that this is because you didn't really feel like debating the point.

Morality is an opinion.
What's more: lives of hundreds to thousands of students and at least a hundred teachers should not be put at risk for the sake of morality. If you think so, then there's a huge opinion factor in that discussion.
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Now, if you have some fast sensitivity to having your personal items you keep in your locker from being searched, carry those personal items with you (IE: this does not mean your coat, this means the personal items in your coat which you do not wish to be searched).

You don't absolutely need to use your locker for the personal items you do not wish to be searched through.
soccers21
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soccers21
53 posts
Nomad

they should search the lockers

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