Proposition 8 was the bill voted on by California voters over gay marriage. The bill, if passed, would ban gay marriage and nullify over 18,000 marriages in the state. The campaign for the bill turned nasty. Both sides raised over $35 million, the most ever for a single issue bill. In the end, about 52% of the population voted for Proposition 8, thus taking away the rights of gays in California.
What shocked me the most was which group was most responsible for the bill being passed. Was is the Whites? Nope. Latinos? Nope. The Religious community? Nope. They all voted about 50/50 on the bill. In fact, almost every group voted 50/50, except for African Americans. Over 70% of African Americans voted for the bill, thus swinging the pendulum against gay rights.
I find it awfully Ironic that just 40-50 years ago, the blacks were struggling for rights in America. They had to use separate facilities, restaurants, schools, and bathrooms. They were second class citizens. âSeparate but Equalâ was the slogan to justify this racist and nasty system. It took the African American community over 100 years to tear down these walls and be granted equality. Slowly, but surely, racism is dying in America. All races are free to be in the same places as Whites. Any person of any race, color, ethnicity, background, or religion can marry whomever they want. Because of heroes like Martin Luther King Jr, Rosa Parks, W.E.B. Du Bois, and thousands of others, minority groups have gained freedom.
Now, gays are fighting the same struggle. Millions of gays around the United States are not allowed to marry the person they love. They are treated like second class citizens. They have to worry about constant threats of violence, isolation of friends and family, and condemnation of religious groups. With the state of things, the gays might as well be labeled âSeparate but Equal.â
One would think that African Americans would sympathize with the gay rights movement. Both have been held back due to genetics. Both have been oppressed. Both have suffered violence, brutality, murder, and hatred. Yet it is now the African Americans who are shooting down gay rights.
African Americans who were interviewed on the topic were seen wearing âObamaâ shirts, hats, or other gear. They supported Obama all the way. Yet when it came to gay rights, a supposed Liberal issue, they were violently opposed. Many interviewees were getting upset at the slightest thought of allowing gays to marry. When asked the difference between the Civil Rights Movement and the Gay Rights Movement, they usually responded with something like, âItâs just differentâ or âItâs not natural.â 50 years ago, it was ânot naturalâ for blacks to have rights in America. So how are gay rights any different?
There is no logic, justification, or sense in voting for Proposition 8, especially in the African American community. They went through the same oppression, and are now the oppressors. I am assuming I will be labeled a racist for writing this. That is okay. I am not a racist. I just seek the truth in the issues. And the truth is that the people who were formerly oppressed, are now the oppressors.
(NOTE: I know not all African-Americanâs voted for proposition 8, so don't think I'm blaming the entire group. I am only blaming those who voted for the bill. I also know that everyone who voted for the bill is to blame for the intolerance. But this is just to point out the hypocrisy on the African American vote).
Ya as I was typing that, I realized that the same situations occurred in the past with racial issues. Like when people would shun interracial marriages, etc. Everything takes getting used to. I just feel like its unnatural, so we shouldn't force a kid to be in an unnatural situation when we are not sure of the affects it will have on him or her. But since there are gays out there, we might as well let them live happy lives and get married, but there is no need for them to go affecting other people, especially children, who are young and easily affected in those stages of life.
I don't think they are affecting anyone. Now or in the future. I posted this in the other Prop 8 thread but... Why should one's personal choice be affected by others? (general public, government, or religious factions, even family members.)
As for the part about them affecting children, it won't happen as long as they tell their children about their specific situation. And teach them to make their own choices.
"Life, Liberty, and the Persuit of Happiness."-Declaration of Independance. And yet the passing of Prop 8 seems to have nullified all three.
I happen to say this because at least anecdotally it makes perfect sense to me that, on a population basis, African-Americans (and Africans in general) are anti-homosexual. This is merely a cultural thing.
Why is that so?
A child needs both a male and female in the household to grow properly as a person.
I never had anyone other than my mom. Are you saying there's something wrong with me because of that? There is so much I want to argue with in your post, Flipski, but I think kris and others already caught most of it, and it has certainly been discussed in the Homosexuality thread as well...
I know the parents wouldnt force them but if you were gay and you see your parents being hetrosexual then you feel bad about being gay...The same could be said for being hetrosexual with gay parents.
Definitely true for some individuals. But with the majority still being straight, most medias portraying straight people, and the general acceptance of straight as "right"(...), it would hardly have the potential to become an issue for those kids... And I've never met a gay person who didn't accept people being straight... Bt certainly straight people who doesn't accept others being gay, even when not directly affected...
It's true, when that adopted child goes to middle school and high school, and word leaks out that he's a child of a homosexual family, it will be a world of pain for him, in the sense of harassing. I've noticed this behavior, lemme tell you. College, it's not so bad, since the whole deal of maturity and all, but in the teen years, it was a pretty horrible deal to witness.
Prejudice will never disappear if we do not fight it. Eventually, it will stop. But not before it even starts. Is it really better to accept the repression of minorities and let everything smudge out into a gray mass of sameness than suffer a few generations for future good? They can survive it.
Straights can be terrible parents and pop out kids at sixteen and nobody cares. They can beat their kids and hurt then and nobody cares. They can get divorce and remarried numerous times and nobody cares. But a gay person asks to get married and adopt unwanted children and people go nuts. Logic? I see none.
There is none. Sadly. Loved the dripping sarcasm in the rest of your post, kris.
OOOOOO! Don't forget about the argument that God will reign down hellfire on those countries or states who legalize gay marriage! Watch out Denmark, Netherlands, and Spain! God's judgment will arrive any second!
WEEEEEEE! I agree with Cenere, that shall certainly be fun to see.
good, not to be mean, but Gay rights should not be allowed sorry
I don't think anyone will accept that apology, honestly. I know I don't. Even mentally retarded people who are nothing but an expense to society and mass murderers have rights. Gays are in no way a trouble to society, if we forget about the problems caused by prejudice.
Gay sex doesnt exactly do that, unless you grow a womb in your ***, and your *** is so loose that it wont kill the baby.
I have hilarious mental images of that.
But who cares if it's natural? I like the not-so-natural parts of my life. Like my glasses.
why?
Seconded.
Why should one's personal choice be affected by others? (general public, government, or religious factions, even family members.)
It shouldn't, but for some reason we as humans tend to seek others acceptance. Not everyone in equal amounts, but generally we like the support and fellowship of others. Which is how many minorities came into existence...
As for the part about them affecting children, it won't happen as long as they tell their children about their specific situation. And teach them to make their own choices.
Exactly.
On the original point of this thread, hmm... One minority is in no way obligated to support another. A minority is made of a lot of people, who might fall under a bunch of other minorities as well. Race and sexuality are not the same matters.
I understand if churches don't want to perform the "marriages" but there needs to be some sort of legal side of it available for all couples. Specifically for the rights that come with it.
If a homosexual male is badly injured and dying in a hospital, and only family is aloud in to say their final goodbyes, guess what? his partner isn't aloud in. It doesn't matter what either of them say, hospitals enforce this rule extremely strictly. No vote should determine this, and its ridiculous to think that people vote for this to be.
The religious side of should not be effecting it right now. I'm sure many of the couples aren't even religious, and would prefer to get married in a courthouse as compared to a church. I don't know how that imposes on someones religious tradition.
I'm sad to be part of a society that can ever comprehend limiting rights of individuals.
Everyone does have the equal right. The right to find a mate and marry them. Two males cannot mate, so therefore that doesn't work. (I Love starting arguments )
Really though., aside from me causing trouble . I really don't care either way. I want everyone to be happy and to not feel oppressed, no matter who they are. But there is a side of me that says no matter how you look at it, its not normal, whether scientifically or religiously. And since Marriage stemmed from humans (male and female) developing in a way where they need to stick together for at least 10 years to raise a kid ( human children are the only animals that require this much attention), I feel like homosexual marriage and child raising doesn't really make sense. But whatever, I like arguing both sides, to see what people have to say.
Yes exactly flipski!!! Thank for pionting out the obvios (thats a praise).
O yea and you know what I just thought about gays,is that if thousands of men become gays and same with girls what is going to happend to our population huh?
Our population would go down the drain. As I have said about hmmmmm I think 10 million times a man with a women and a women with a man.
The losses in California, Arizona and Florida devastated supporters of same-sex marriage
Read the whole article here//www.blogrunner.com/snapshot/D/0/7/bans_in_3_states_on_gay_marriage/
@Flipski: Is your definition of being able to mate: being able to reproduce?
Btw, I kind of like your way of arguing, though it's confusing how you argue for several views when trying to discuss with you. :P
@jonnypants: You do realize that in most places we do not currently have huge issues with too low population? There are some, but generally the problem seems to lean the other way...
If we let gays marry then there will be LOW population
right now there is a high population. now do you think that if gay people were allowed to marry, the whole world will turn gay? no. there are many more straight people than gay people in this world. i think we will have no problem with low population.
Are you referring to the Proper Citation sticky? I have read that, thank you. If not that one, which one did you mean?
And I don't see why I am not allowed to flip your statement around to make a statement myself. This was brought up in the Homosexuality thread as well. There is no problem, because everybody is not going to magically turn gay. And even if they did, we have cloning developing quickly. One day it will be possible for two men or two women to have a child that is genetically their own.
If we let gays marry then there will be LOW population
Nope. Just because they are not allowed to marry, doesn't mean they will start reproducing instead.
What I was saying is that we don't have issues with the population size because of homosexuality. As to what problem, that would be the problem in some places where too few babies are born to generate a high enough income for the old generations to be kept via public pensions. Denmark related, that.
And even if they did, we have cloning developing quickly. One day it will be possible for two men or two women to have a child that is genetically their own.
Oops, made it look like those two things were completely on the same subject. Not on purpose. Forgive me for that. Add a linebreak or something.
And I never said we have low population , your flippin this around. If we let gays marry then there will be LOW population
Ahh not even close to being true. All I see is unwanted children being helped out and of course most women, whether gay or straight, have that ticking biological clock. As long as there are guys to ((blank)) into a cup then we will never have a population shortage. And in fact a population drop for a while might not be a bad thing.
