My point was that you can not obtain logic from random chance,
"We have logic there for God exists" is as huge of a step as "we exist so God must exist". Even if we could accept this as proof of God's existence you still haven't proven your specific God.
Agreed but random and significant mutations must occur for the evolutionary process to create what we have today (such as RNA to DNA which you made sound quite trivial but would actually be a significant evolutionary leap)
Don't mistake something easily happening for something trivial. Also significant changes (while they do happen) wouldn't be necessary, just a bunch of little ones. Which is easily observed happening.
@Sonatavarius
bird's beaks from 1 species have been measured and seen to be significantly different from the preserved remains of birds from years past...
It would seem birds at one point didn't even have beaks, such as evidence with the archeopteryx. We have even been able to reactivate these now dormant genes in chickens.
The chance for a beneficial mutation to occur is infinitesimally small.
How do you figure that? Also you have to keep in mind the time scale being worked with. Most mutations are benign. Some are harmful, those die out. Some are beneficial, those survive. Also a previously harmful mutations can become helpful depending on the environment.
Let me guess your going to have this followed up with some completely made up astronomically large number.
The ratio of the possibility of occurrence for the first one could be viewed as our moon compared to our star.... which is billions of times larger
the ratio of the possibility of occurrence for the 2nd one could be viewed as a single atom compared our sun.
Called that one. The numbers you ascribing are meaningless. It's like saying the possibility of me making the last post I did was 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 so it couldn't possibly have happened with out a higher power then myself guiding it.
I think that for evolution to have occurred at the magnitude it has without everything instead getting cancer and dying there would need to be a guiding hand that has painstakingly directed the mutations to have occurred in a beneficial way.
We call it natural selection. Those with harmful treats die, those with beneficial treats live.
for me... I recall somewhere it being said that man was created out of dirt/mud/etc... so I view God as a potter (bear with the symbolism please)...
The Bible actually, usually claiming it was dust or dirt. Which is not the claim of science. Considering the story of genesis is so riddled with logical flaws that even many Christians done even regard the story as a true account, I wouldn't call it a reliable source to base a hypothesis on.
according to this frame of thought, I don't see why it would be impossible for us, humans, to have been shaped from a more primitive, simian, (monkey) ancestor by God himself.
Keep in mind that we have been able to observe evolutionary changed occur, not once have we observed a deity intervening in those changed. This proves that such changed do not necessitate God's intervention. So if God has directed evolution his involvement would be comparable to someone opening an automatic door for another person.
The bible says "days" in the book of genesis... I personally think that God's "days" don't equate to our own.
Considering the Bible was written for us why would God use a time frame we have no way of understanding rather then the one we live with?
According to all of the "roof" of either way... there may or may not be a God or a higher power.
Since there is no proof then it's reasonable to assume such a being doesn't exist. Further more if we are being more specific with the God of the Christian Bible, the claims of this God as yet don't match the evidence presented.
other faiths are generally allowed to do whatever it is that they want to do regarding their faith in public and at schools...
All of them would equally not be allowed to have their various religious concepts taught as fact or an alternative either. So asking or demanding that creation be taught in schools is just looking for preferential treatment.
I want to apologize... I haven't read any more than maybe 3 pages worth of posts. Reading all 68 pages just wasn't going to happen. I hope I haven't beaten any dead horses that have already been beaten to a pulp
No problem, your views were worth reading.
