When people hear Germany they think of hitler and WW2 and how bad the nazis were. But the question is in their point of view were they bad people? Sure they killed jews. But when your country calls you have to go. their was rebellions, but none succeful. Try to flee the country instead of serving you would be shot. Most were excited and glad of what hitler said. He was gifted in the art of speech. Jews were also thought of as the enemy of Germany, and bringing their country down. What do you think of nazis?
I it was a desperate time most of people yelling "Hai Hitler!" did not know that would only bring war and more poorness/suffering. They were open to really any new leader since the loss of WW1. And the Nazi government masked most of the killing and other horrible acts done by the SS and other special groups. When this was revealed though the Nazi party was already crumbling.
I mean for all we know we be walking into that right now with Obama/Biden and not even know.
mean for all we know we be walking into that right now with Obama/Biden and not even know.
Lol,I wouldn't go that far , but I sure don't trust Obama in the presidency.
becoming a subject of fascination rather than total vilification.
I believe people think of him now , more of an interesting person then a killer. He was a great leader ,and very smart , but when he started killing iniccent jews and such he crossed the line.
no being a coward is choosing your own life over 15 other people. I would rather end the one life i have then destory countless others only life. So ya all those people like for example the pope who was in a hilter youth group. all are cowards
i think of the nazis and the germans as two seperate partys, the nazis were people whom were blaming germanys troubles after WW1 on jews just to gain popularity, they tried to get germans to join them, i don't believe germany is to blame, i believe it is the nazi officials
Anti-semitism was hardly unique to the Nazi officials though. Many people blamed the Jews for things and disliked them. Also many other groups of people were persecuted by the Nazis.
Anti-semitism was hardly unique to the Nazi officials though. Many people blamed the Jews for things and disliked them. Also many other groups of people were persecuted by the Nazis.
Anti Semitism and general intolerance were perfectly acceptable at the time. The reason most of it was fostered in Germany was because of the influx of Ostjuden from Poland and Russia fleeing the pogroms, showing that it was much worse in Eastern Europe prior to 1933. However that does not excuse the Nazis for what they did. There is a difference between anti semitism and annhilationism. Most Germans thought the Jews got what they deserved, and regretted the loss of the war much more than the Holocaust. There is no excuse for this in my eyes. Simply saying other nations were anti semitic does not validate their actions. By that logic a thief should defend himself in court by pointing out other people steal too. A flimsy argument, especially considering the massive scale of the Holocaust itself.
I wasn't trying to validate the holocaust. I just meant that the feelings weren't as unique as themonkeyking made it sound. It was their actions after that that were more seperate from the people. Please don't imply I would try and excuse the Nazi's for such a heinous thing I find it very offensive. Its not like I don't realise the "massive scale" of the Holocaust.
I wasn't trying to validate the holocaust. I just meant that the feelings weren't as unique as themonkeyking made it sound. It was their actions after that that were more seperate from the people. Please don't imply I would try and excuse the Nazi's for such a heinous thing I find it very offensive. Its not like I don't realise the "massive scale" of the Holocaust.
I wasn't attacking you personally or presuming your ignorance on the topic. If it came across like that then I apologise. I was just attacking the argument that because anti semitism was common and not restricted to top level Nazis, that the Holocaust was excusable.
I am sorry as well got a bit carries away what with the subject. I wasn't saying the Holocaust itself was excusable more that the general population of Germany at the time were not completely excusable. Anyway like I say sorry and have a good day.
I am sorry as well got a bit carries away what with the subject.....Anyway like I say sorry and have a good day.
No worries mate. You too.
I wasn't saying the Holocaust itself was excusable more that the general population of Germany at the time were not completely excusable.
To expand on this point, I quite recently went to the Imperial War Museum in Lambeth and saw the Holocaust exhibit. Within this there was achart of all the aspects of Germany involved in the same layout as a family tree. Of course you had the SS,Einsatzgrupen and the Wermacht to some extent as well as all the top Nazis, but what surprised me was the extent which it spread throughout 'normal' German industries. Transport was a very large part of it as well as the construction industry. The point is thousands of Germans had directly seen what was going on, of course gossip and such would mean in my opinion, it would be almost impossible to live in the Reich without knowing what was going on. The argument most commonly used to defend the German people, is that they were helpless to stop it even if they wanted to. For this I have 2 points: 1 is that the notable lack of underground resistance in Germany against the Nazis compared to in many other countries shows their acceptance of the Holocaust. 2 is that some nations did refuse to let their Jews be slaughtered, notably most Scandanavian ones and Italy. The Italian held segment of Vichy France was a safe haven for the Jews as well as most of Italy before German troops occupied it. This shows that popular resistance to the idea of the Holocaust could have prevented at least some of the killings.
In conclusion of the above, I do not belive that the German people were solely to blame, but I think to completely absolve them is foolish given the evidence.
Err... I'm not sure what to say Kirby. The hate of Jews by the Nazi's was less to do with their views on Jesus (the Nazi's set up a paganistic style religion). It was more to do with the idea of social Darwinism. Where they felt the Jews were inferior and so should be killed. Similar things happened to gypsies, gays and disabled people. "Jew" is an ethnoreligious group so I think it was more to do with the ethnic part rather than the religious ideal they held.
From what I know that is pretty much right; but please don't jump on my back if it isn't I've had enough of that recently.
it was more to do with the ethnic part rather than the religious ideal they held.
Hitler belived that the Jews were a race and that the religion was a facade masking their evil schemes. His attempts to prove that the Jews were medically a race failed spectacularly which is why he eventually ordered Jews to wear armbands.
I think that the people of Germany were at just as much fault as Hitler. Well, maybee a little less. For one thing, they allowed him to exist, to plot, to take power. No one tried to stop him, even when they knew what he was doing and how terrible it was. No one was powerful enough to stop him once he was in power because they were too scared of dying. I'm not saying that you should loose all thought of self preservation, but that's not the point that I'm trying to make here. While Hitler was taking over Germany, piece by piece, there was no one that saw a need to stop him. They thought that because he wasn't targeting them directly, there was no need to worry. That lack of civic virtue is what gave Hitler the opportunity to take power unapposed. I'm not trying to contradict what other people have said, but what I'M saying is that if one group of people, just one, (for example the tradesmen) had thought that Hitler was wrong and stood up against him as one, the holocost may never have happened. However, it is being unreasonable to ask for something as large as that, because it is human nature to be afraid of being alone (asuming that no one will support you so giving up) and it is human nature to put one's self before others.
