mostly the Arabs and Muslims are just like you and me.
Yup, thats what im saying too. Just explained the faults of some of the Arabs who lead my religion. Of coarse we are the same, thats what Islam says. And i am muslim so.... yea muslims are exactly like me.
Hence the terrorist organizations who are defending Islam.
Mind me of my ignorance, but are you saying that the government are terrorists and still try to defend Islam? Or something else, again mind that i dont get stuff quickly.
Say five men came to your house, an forced you and your family out at gunpoint, taking all your possessions and money what would you do? You'd call the cops. So you call the cops, and guess what? They send some men over to help the other five. Muslim or not, you will try to get your house back. That's what the Afghans and Palestinians are doing. Trying to get their house back.
Exactly what i tell people. I clearly understand the situation that they are facing, and it is not fair or easy, and of coarse they must fight back. But they should not fight back in this matter, killing themselves like this which is completely against the Quaran. I have read the Quaran all my life and in no way did they say to kill themselves which leads them to heaven. I mean, fighting against the Isreali's in a way that they do not intentionally kill themselves or kill civilians. It only says in the Quaran if they die fighting for God, they will be rewarded. But in the same place, it says not to kill youself intentionally. This is definatly such a sad and terrible situation, and i am do defend them ussually when someone is saying that they are terrorist. Maybe i said this before, but i dont really concider them terrorists. But again, they should not be fighting in this matter, but again, may god have mercy on their souls.
And like i said before, it is also the other Arab coutries fault in not helping the Palistinians or Afghanis to fight back. Truely a sad situation.
Anyone else annoyed with the title and the first post?
If you have the power to do that why not just abolish religion all together? Save a lot of deaths in the future...
Yes because religion does nothing good at all we don't provide homeless shelters we don't provide blood (Red Cross anyone) we're all actually terrible people in fact I'm going to kill all non religious people because thats how bad religion is (sarcasm by the way)
Mind me of my ignorance, but are you saying that the government are terrorists and still try to defend Islam? Or something else, again mind that i dont get stuff quickly.
The term "Freedom Fighter" could apply here. We think of groups such as Al-Qaida (however you spell that. Argh, not good at foreign words) as terrorists. Really, what they're doing is 'defending' Islam. They believe the west and their leaders are corrupting the Muslim culture (like you said) and so they take action in one of the only ways they know how. They can't protest. Look what happened in Tiananmen. Only now, nobody will hold their hand when they get massacred. So they oppose in the easiest way.
And like i said before, it is also the other Arab coutries fault in not helping the Palistinians or Afghanis to fight back. Truely a sad situation.
They have no option. They aren't powerful enough to take on the west.
The term "Freedom Fighter" could apply here. We think of groups such as Al-Qaida (however you spell that. Argh, not good at foreign words) as terrorists. Really, what they're doing is 'defending' Islam. They believe the west and their leaders are corrupting the Muslim culture (like you said) and so they take action in one of the only ways they know how. They can't protest. Look what happened in Tiananmen. Only now, nobody will hold their hand when they get massacred. So they oppose in the easiest way.
Agree with you completely. I dont really talk about Al-Qaida that much tho, one of my first times actually. I didnt even take into an account that they are freedom fighters. I know they should definatley fight back in this, and the western world points at them and calls em terrorists. Thats exactly what ive been fighting about for years. They arent neccessarily are terrorists but are fighting back. Still dont agree with their ways.
With the Arab conversation, i wasnt saying these people were neccesarily the corrupted because these people are really suffering, but the corrupted ones who do indeed corrupt the religion. Al Qaida are actually fighting back from the western world, but i dont agree with some of the things they do. They are very strict about the women laws. Sometimes, they add stuff to the Quaran. But i guess they are fighting for a right reason. Ive never took this into consideration that this specific group are fighting for a right reason.
They have no option. They aren't powerful enough to take on the west.
That i dont completely agree with this. Most of them grow up with their families murdered by isreali's nd grew up with the religion, therefore should know the way to really fight if you are muslim. This is to not harm the citizens. And that does kinda effect me because now that these people (sometimes even kids) are fighting for their land, they turn and try to start something about me. Its sometimes really bad but not as bad as the people in Palistine. But Us or Isrealis do not belong there in the middle east. Alas, even though they are fighting for the right reason, they are not fighting for the religion correctly because (like the suicide bombings) it is against Islam. So doesnt that mean that they are contridicting themselves.
But i think that because of this conflict in the Middle East, i think, goin back to this, the peaceful (maybe islam) will spread across the lands because of the fact that in Islam it says through all the war and while corruption is spreading, a group of people will bring back peace to this land.
I'd like to point out that there has not been a Monotheistic religion I know of that hasn't fought wars over their beliefs. As a matter of fact, that's what happens with most religions. It might seem to you that this is against the <insert holy book here>, but in truth, it can be seen in the words even if it's not there. And does the Quaran not say to persecute non-believers?
I'd like to point out that there has not been a Monotheistic religion I know of that hasn't fought wars over their beliefs.
Well, certainly Islam was not spread over the "sword" and Islamic people did not fight any wars to spread their religion (atleast not that i know of). It is my knowing that when the religion first began, Prophet Mohamed and the first Muslims had to fight in war in order to liberate and to protect themselves from Arab countries that worshiped others. The Army then marched onwards to other countries where many other countries attacked them, but they kept moving forward. Since the army marched onward throughout the India, Middle East, and Africa, Islam spread through the Quaran, but they did not kill anyone in order for them to believe in Islam. So in no way was this religion spread through wars. In the Crusades, I understand that Muslims held Jerusalem, but since European Countries wanted this holy land in which their religion originated from, they fought over it for many years. So for my understanding, the Muslims did not fight over their beliefs, but defended it and their land from others.
And does the Quaran not say to persecute non-believers?
Absolutely not! Since I have been reading the Quaran for many years, i have never saw anything even hinting towards killing the Non believers for no reason. It says to ignore them and do not listen to them, actually, and to be patient because they will get their punishments in Judgment Day.
It does, however, say that in a Muslim Society, if someone commits a very bad crime (being a serial killer, cold blooded murder, etc.) they must kill them so that the crime and injustices must not be spread. Similar to the death penalty. Of coarse, none of the Muslim Country follows this.
Kielzanie, I understand you're Muslim, but a lot of the stuff you're saying now is just plain biased/wrong. Goumas was right. And you seem to not be able to understand that the extremists aren't incorrectly interpreting the Koran - they're interpreting it in their own way. Be a bit more objective. . . .
But yes, Islam was spread over the 'sword' through Egypt and Persia, as well as the Byzantine and Ottoman Empires.
1) All the empires were created with wars. 2) The Arabs were a nomadic tribe, which without motivation would disappear, the Koran was their motivation to conquer fertile and wealthy lands.
Are you joking, how did the Arabs conquer Egypt and Persia, they won the Byzantine and the Persians without using weapons?
But yes, Islam was spread over the 'sword' through Egypt and Persia, as well as the Byzantine and Ottoman Empires.
Ok guys, maybe we are not on the same page right here. Like I had said, Islam was not spread over the sword. But this expression means, well, the Religion was forced on people or else death. This is what many people know from this expression. I know the Muslims ventured through the middle east and captured the Empires that were had caused a burden on mankind. Which i would now like to bring back Hojoko's comment in order to bring up another point:
And does the Quaran not say to persecute non-believers?
And i answered: Absolutely not! Since I have been reading the Quaran for many years, i have never saw anything even hinting towards killing the Non believers for no reason. It says to ignore them and do not listen to them, actually, and to be patient because they will get their punishments in Judgment Day.
But like all of you had said there was war before the religion of Islam could start a foundation. So i would like to tag onto that comment that at this time it was necessary to take down these Empires and non believers. So yea, they kinda had to wage war on these people in order to start their religion.
But hojoko, now today, they have the right to fight back, and as i said a million of times, I dont agree with how they are fighting. But this doesnt mean kill all the non believers. (Non believers meaning they dont except god)
So when i said "Islam was not spread over the Sword" it means that Islam was forced on any peoples of any kind. Something that would be a "Spreading over the Sword" would be if a religion was forcing you to believe or die in which islamic people did not do.
Islamic people did not fight any wars to spread their religion
Their main goal was to gain land during this time. They spread the Religion through the Quaran once they had this land. So they did not start a war just to necessarily force it on people, but to start a foundation for themselves. So now, when Hojoko said:
I'd like to point out that there has not been a Monotheistic religion I know of that hasn't fought wars over their beliefs
I kinda get what he was saying. I thought he was saying that Islam was forced on people, which i dont believe thats what happened.
they won the Byzantine and the Persians without using weapons?
Again, Its an expression. Of coarse they had swords.
And you seem to not be able to understand that the extremists aren't incorrectly interpreting the Koran - they're interpreting it in their own way
Well, if you say you are Muslim, you are supposed to be following the Quaran, in which they are not. You dont know that they are misinterpreting it or not. Maybe some do believe in the Quaran like so and decide to fight back in this matter. They also could be interpreting the Quaran their own way, like them saying that if they kill these people, god will give them 72 virgins in heavan, like i heard. I think i have said that they misinterpreted the Quaran somewhere, and they could be but also could be doing their own thing. How can we know for sure? And I should be more careful about what i say. I know. But dont get me wrong some Muslims do misinterpret the Quaran someplaces and thats what happens when theres a problem but thats a different.
would be if a religion was forcing you to believe or die in which islamic people did not do.
1) Turkey=Islamic Country 2) The turks for many cenuries did it. They did the paidomazoma, they taked children from their families to make them become Islamists and then their officers. 3) Only Turkey made three genocides and they killed also people from every Balcan country: Armenian Genocide: While there is no consensus as to how many Armenians lost their lives during the Armenian Genocide, there is general agreement among western scholars that over 500,000 Armenians died between 1914 and 1918. Estimates vary between 300,000 (per the modern Turkish state) to 1,500,000 (per modern Armenia, Argentina, and other states). Encyclopædia Britannica references the research of Arnold J. Toynbee, an intelligence officer of the British Foreign Office, who estimated that 600,000 Armenians "died or were massacred during deportation" in the years 1915-1916. Assyrian Genocide: was committed against the Assyrian/Syriac population of the Ottoman Empire during the First World War by the Young Turks. The Assyrian population of northern Mesopotamia (the Tur Abdin, Hakkari, Van, Siirt regions of present-day southeastern Turkey and the Urmia region of northwestern Iran) was forcibly relocated and massacred by Ottoman (Turkish) and Kurdish forces between 1914 and 1920 under the regime of the Young Turks. Scholars have placed the number of Assyrian victims at 500,000 to 750,000 Greek genocide: During World War I and its aftermath (1914-1923), the government of the Ottoman Empire instigated a violent campaign against the Greek population of the Empire. The campaign included massacres, forced deportations involving death marches, and summary expulsions. According to various sources, several hundred thousand Ottoman Greeks died during this period. Some of the survivors and expelled, especially those in Eastern provinces, took refuge in the neighbouring Russian Empire. However, after the end of the 1919-22 Greco-Turkish War most of the Greeks migrated or were transferred to Greece under the terms of the 1923 population exchange between Greece and Turkey. So let's end it Islam has killed 1000's. Every religion is and will be the cause of wars.
