How do you guys think Obama has done as President so far? I don't think he is doing that great with the economy. His "Stimulis Packages" don't seem to be doing very much.
in capitalism, the people don't. The USA is still veryvery capitalist - if you think we're turning socialist by nationalizing a few companies, you need to do hours of research until the idiocy that is he Red Scare is out of your mind. Your definition of socialism is totally off if you think the USA is even the slightest bit socialist. Besides, for the USA to be socialist it would need a differently structured republic.
Really, stop embarrassing yourself over socialism arguments like this. Me and Mike412 have ripped through your 'the US is turning socialist' arguments like rice paper before - no need to tire my fingers by typing it all up again. Do some research and quit it with the childish blame games.
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Such as?
Well, I don't take any economics classes because I'm still in middle school, but DDx explained it pretty well in a different thread:
You don't know anything about Obama. The reason why Obama is taking taxes is because the government is using it so it can stimulate the economy, creating more inflow to the government AND the people. With America's spending multiplier at 1.08 (for every dollar you receive, you spend 1 dollar and 8 cents (borrowed, or from savings)) Sure, Obama gives the wealth to poor people, but you dont get it! Poor people stay poor, and will spend the money on booze or whatever, this money goes back into the circular flow diagram and back to firms who in turn pay the hardworking employees more money (thats how rich people make money, they work hard) and the company presidents will only get a certain amount of money from bonuses (wall street ppl too). Sure this dissuades people from wanting to become company presidents and such because it pays a bit lower than before, but you must remember that many of them still make over 13M a year without bonuses...
but via the government. Wrong They do by paying for it with our tax dollars Also wrong
Ok... You say that the people own the businesses. Then how do they do that. Take a vote. You are saying two completely different things. You say the people own businesses, but HOW?
Then you try to tell me I'm playing a blame game. BS. You all blame Bush for everything and now that Obama is making everything worse than it was before you think it is still Bush's fault. Get your head out of the ****ing sand.
. . .in socialism. I was talking about in a socialist system - and the USA ISN'T SOCIALIST. Sorry if I caused confusion.
In socialism, the people don't own the businesses via the government through tax dollars. And the nationalized businesses in the USA aren't even owned by the people via the government through tax dollars.
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Then you try to tell me I'm playing a blame game. BS. You all blame Bush for everything and now that Obama is making everything worse than it was before you think it is still Bush's fault. Get your head out of the ****ing sand.
So now you're attacking me for something I haven't said? That's a great debate tactic.
^Of course it is isn't that how stupid people always argue? Anyway I'd say hes doing okay, the man hasn't even been president for a year...give him sometime people. Anyway at least hes pulling people out of Iraq...more tension in the middle east is not what we needed...plus hes at least trying to stimulate the economy unlike GWB...
In socialism, the people don't own the businesses via the government through tax dollars. And the nationalized businesses in the USA aren't even owned by the people via the government through tax dollars
So you say that the people own the businesses in a socialist system. How do the people, as in the general population or taxpayers, control the companies?
So you say that the people own the businesses in a socialist system. How do the people, as in the general population or taxpayers, control the companies?
They all have partial ownership of the means of production. Not through taxes. It would be difficult to explain - you're still thinking in terms of a capitalist structure, when the entire government and economy is structured entirely different for socialism to be applied and to work even in the slightest.
Look at this: http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=^dji It's a chart of the Dow Jones from September 08 to the present. In only 2 months from Obama's inauguration, the DJI has stopped falling and began to go back up. It didn't just hit the bottom and lie flat; it started increasing again. You cannot argue that Obama has nothing to do with this... and those of you giving Obama C's and D's... there is not a letter low enough if the alphabet to give to GWB and still preserve the contrast in the competency of these two presidents.
They all have partial ownership of the means of production.
Right now the people of the U.S. have partial ownership of General Motors. However we did not do this willingly. The government just took control. Because it was our tax money you're right, each person has partial ownership in the company. However, we cannot run it. My dad can't go to GM and say he wants things done a certain way. That is where the government does things for us because they are elected to represent us. WE own it, but we don't RUN it, the government does.
[/quote]In only 2 months from Obama's inauguration, the DJI has stopped falling and began to go back up[quote]
If you look at October 1st 2008 you will se the DJI in the 10ks. Then you see it drop dramatically. That is because the democrats in congress passed the TARP program. People then realized that it was a BAAAAD move by bush and they started selling while noone was buying. That caused a downward spike. Then you see it fluctuate up to Obamas inauguration. This is because of unsurity in the market.
Then you see it go DOWN right after he is elected. This is because he is promising economic stimulus. The people remember TARP and began to sell and sell and sell. This caused that drop you see.
But then you see it start to go back up and think to yourself, "Look! Obama fixed it!" That's entirely untrue. What's happening right now is that people are investing in the programs that the government is putting money into, but they are doing it very slowly and very carefully. That way, if or when everything goes down the toilet, they can just pull out.
Right now due to all the thigns that he is doing and the unknown effects that they will actually have the stock market is going to go back up a little bit more, but it's going to level out. We're not going to be back up where we were for a long time.
