Im just curious as to how many 5 point Calvanists we have here. If you are one or have a question about them please speak up! A five point calvanist believes in the 5 points of John Calvin which are summed up in TULIP, Total Depravity we are totally dead in our sin and have nothing to do with our salvation it is entirely up to God. Unconditional Election God selected His people before the foundations of the earth were made and He has saved each and everyone of them and shall continue. Limited Atonement No one other than the elect can be saved. Irresistible Grace The elect can do nothing to avoid being saved. Perseverence of the Saints God will keep His people and none of them will fall away and everyone of them will reach their final destination, heaven.
There they are. You may think them cruel but God is gracious to save any of us after we have rebeled against Him. We are like clay and he is the potter, when the potter makes a mistake he can easily destroy the clay and start over. But God has been gracious and has given us a second chance. As for election He does not keep people from being saved through this, but rather saves people that without this none would be saved because we are ALL spiritually dead, and a dead person can do nothing on their own to be revived. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and we are all dead in our transgressions, without His grace we would all be damned but through His grace some are saved and this is not unfair. Because He created us can He not therefor do what He wants with us? Please speak up if your a Calvanist and leave your thoughts either way! Thank you!
We can't know what is true and what is not all we can do is believe. But for the sake of this debate can we agree that jesus loved us enough to die for our salvation?
I agree with that, but you just said the bible isnt 100% true and we dont know what parts are and are not, so this leaves us with a massive problem, how do we know Jesus did this? That Jesus is real? That God is the way he is portraide to be? How do we know there is a heaven and hell then? How can you say that the bible is flawed when it is the Holy Word of God? You think that God is not powerful enough to get His message to us clearly through His word that we are not to alter or else we be eternally damned with no hope??
I think god didnt want to give us all the answers. Its through personal experiances and finding things out for yourself that you grow as a person. Jesus shows up in world history as well as the bible so odds are he is real and I do beleive the general message of the bible is true. If god really wanted to he could give us all the answers but why should he thats like spoiling a child when they get out by themselves there not going to know how to take care of themselves or treat other people. God didnt screw us by not giving us all the answers but he did give us the tools to grow together
I agree with all that but He did give us His word, the Bible, to help guide us.
yep but how can you get salvation, when before the beginning of the earth it was determined who is being saved. why should i as a person not going to be saved(i assume all the saved ones are calvinists) care about anything thre religion says, if i know it does not change my fate
For God so loved the WORLD, God loves everyone the same he want's EVERYONE to go to heaven yet he does not mess with free will. If there was ANY proof for this I'd be like F you God, but there's not so I still believe in him, and worship him. Armenian FTW.
No I wouldn't say that Calvanism is just a view, what really matters is that you believe on Christ and his love and death for you. Im just making debate.
Your not getting it if Calvinism was true I wouldn't be a Christian why? Because I wouldn't want to be saved just because I'm lucky then again I guess I'd be forced into going to heaven. One of the biggest messages of the New Testament is spreading God's word, what that just busy work?
No no no, from a clavanist's point of view you are saved because you are elect, not all christians are calvanists and i would go so far as to say not all calvanists are christians (so not all going to heaven)
No no no, from a clavanist's point of view you are saved because you are elect, not all christians are calvanists and i would go so far as to say not all calvanists are christian
Right so if i was elect to be saved and did whatever I wanted my entire life and turned my back on God I would still be saved, and how exactly can you be a Calvinist and not a Christian.
No no no, from a clavanist's point of view you are saved because you are elect, not all christians are calvanists and i would go so far as to say not all calvanists are christians (so not all going to heaven)
From how you described the tenets though, it sounded as if you didn't even have to be a calvinist to be saved. After all, it's up to god who is saved and who is not; and once you're saved or damned, there is nothing you can do to change that (including becoming a calvinist).
Correct Hidden, what were you getting at or did I miss something? As for your comment Samy, if your truly saved you grow to be more Godlike and you cannot stand sin. Not all Calvanists are saved I should have said. In the example you gave it is hypocritical, to say your saved and to do the opposite proves nothing other than your a liar, and a horrid one at that.
Correct Hidden, what were you getting at or did I miss something?
No, you didn't miss anything.. sorry, I'm just having difficulty coming to grips with bothering to follow rules or act pious or good or... anything if it's all pre-determined...
Correct Hidden, what were you getting at or did I miss something?
He's saying this with just a hint of sarcasm, I think he's trying to say wow wait thats stupid.
As for your comment Samy, if your truly saved you grow to be more Godlike and you cannot stand sin.
Correct, yet what if I don't know I'm saved what if I just end up in heaven?
Also you ignored my posts
One of the biggest messages of the New Testament is spreading God's word, what that just busy work?
For God so loved the WORLD
No, you didn't miss anything.. sorry, I'm just having difficulty coming to grips with bothering to follow rules or act pious or good or... anything if it's all pre-determined...
