Im just curious as to how many 5 point Calvanists we have here. If you are one or have a question about them please speak up! A five point calvanist believes in the 5 points of John Calvin which are summed up in TULIP, Total Depravity we are totally dead in our sin and have nothing to do with our salvation it is entirely up to God. Unconditional Election God selected His people before the foundations of the earth were made and He has saved each and everyone of them and shall continue. Limited Atonement No one other than the elect can be saved. Irresistible Grace The elect can do nothing to avoid being saved. Perseverence of the Saints God will keep His people and none of them will fall away and everyone of them will reach their final destination, heaven.
There they are. You may think them cruel but God is gracious to save any of us after we have rebeled against Him. We are like clay and he is the potter, when the potter makes a mistake he can easily destroy the clay and start over. But God has been gracious and has given us a second chance. As for election He does not keep people from being saved through this, but rather saves people that without this none would be saved because we are ALL spiritually dead, and a dead person can do nothing on their own to be revived. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God, and we are all dead in our transgressions, without His grace we would all be damned but through His grace some are saved and this is not unfair. Because He created us can He not therefor do what He wants with us? Please speak up if your a Calvanist and leave your thoughts either way! Thank you!
Crazy idea #1, we scrap capitalism, since it's taking over the world and it thrives off of greed and sin, and we replace it with a more communal man-to-man sister-to-sister Brother-to-Sister system like Owenism! New Lanark will live again I say!
We're talking about Calvinism, not utopia. Moreover, New Lanark epically failed because it was totally impractical. If it can't succeed on the small scale, how could it work on the large scale?
It didn't fail! Under Robert Owen 2500 people lived under very good working conditions and New Lanark was very productive! Why, it was proof that treating workers badly wasn't the best way to make a good amount of profit!
Just to let you know companies who treat their workers better typically do better. I belive its american airlines that puts its employees first and they are the only air line that has made money since this reccesion began why? Because the employees happy means they are in a better mood so they treat customers better which makes the customers happy and come back.
This was in capitalist america sorry to dissapoint you vote
Socialist, I don't mean to bother you, but this isn't the place for sociast soapboxing. Refer to one of the numerous other threads if you'd like, or make a new one. We are talking about Calvinism here, so I'd appreciate if you could respect that.
I'd like to direct the discussion towards the state of free will. What are your thoughts on our current level of free will?
Now, now, don't oversimplify this. This is a problem that has not been resolved for millenia, and won't be resolved until we pass on. For example, in Exodus it says that God hardened Pharoah's heart. Is that messing with free will? Herein lies the paradox.
For example, in Exodus it says that God hardened Pharoah's heart. Is that messing with free will? Herein lies the paradox.
I see could I have the exact verse of this not that I doubt you I just believe you can't take things out of context and expect them to be true. Also maybe I should have said God would never mess with someones free will to make them believe in him.
Socialist, I don't mean to bother you, but this isn't the place for sociast soapboxing. Refer to one of the numerous other threads if you'd like, or make a new one. We are talking about Calvinism here, so I'd appreciate if you could respect that
Look also at Jacob and Esau, God says "For Jacob I have loved and Esau I have hated." This states that Esau was not saved and ontop of this that God would not extend His hand to save Esau. This here shows that without God we are hopeless and not coming to Him on our own.
Indeed. God certainly has free rein in deciding who he wants to save. However, Paul did also write in Titus 2:11 that "the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men." God wants to save as many people as he can, and so he is delaying the final judgment.
I agree with both Parsat and Noj on the free will thing. Although we are given free will, God is still sovereign and God is still ruler. He will decide what's best for us and also what's best for the world. It is *His* world after all.
And thanks be to God for his delay! It gives lazy Christians like me the time to repent and to get off my lazy butt and to actually study the Bible and speak to people! (Though I can't help but wish that Jesus would just come back already!!)
