"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands: one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
This is repeated every morning by students all over the world, and is recited at many events. However, there's one part that many people have a problem with. "One nation, under God". Why should Americans be forced to acknowledge the existence of God to pledge their allegiance to their country?
So my question to you: Should the "under God" be removed from the pledge of allegiance?
People, taking God out of the Pledge and taking it off our money is like tearing down the National Cathedral, its not going to happen.
It may not be likely to actually happen - but that's not an argument. Essentially you're conceding that the other side is right, but feigning apathy because you know it will never come to pass - which, you are probably right.
Its impossible to separate church and state because everyone's beliefs will effect their decision. I think that atheists have a belief that God doesnt exists, so thats why I said atheists have a belief. i also wasnt directing the money part towards you because you live in Canada, it was directed to, and ignored by, the atheists here that live in America.
So... for those countries that *have* separation of church and state? Doesn't sound that impossible to me. And your opinion that atheists 'believe' there is no god is irrelevant, and wrong.
I still dont see why you guys keep saying that you shouldnt have to say it if you dont believe in God, when we already said that you DO NOT HAVE TO SAY THE PLEDGE IF YOU DONT WANT TO. so basically continuing this thread is pointless
This isn't about not having to 'say' the pledge, it's about the fact that god is in the pledge *at all*. It should be removed and returned to its original form where it did not contain the words 'one nation under god', because the U.S.A. is not a theocracy and should have no official religious affiliations.
I'm sorry but I guess my area is different from most, but on the first day they will tell us that the only thing we need to do during the Pledge of Allegiance is stand, and even that is barely enforced. I see no need to change the Pledge, and honestly while it has been talked about before. I will be honest that unless congress and the Senate both become filled with a majority of anti-religious members then it will probably not happen anyways as much as some people would like to think wishfully otherwise.
I don't understand why anyone at all is complaining about saying a pledge of allegiance. Next time you think America sucks or your life sucks, imagine living in a 3rd world country where you don't have running water, electricity, public roads, public schools, schools period. You don't even have rights in 3rd world countries, so put that in the back of your little cranium the next time you have to stand up and say the pledge of allegiance.
I guess you guys just don't understand what an insult it is to what a great country the U.S.A. really is to have put god in the pledge of allegiance half a century ago + change. Maybe if you put your own beliefs aside and looked at it objectively in terms of what the constitution & country stands for you'd realize that.
@kriaz Give me your teachers name address ect... I'm going to do that just to spite her...
Well even though I'm not an Americain and no nothing of the pledge I think it should be removed because people shouldn't have to do that without worrying about getting criticized or in trouble by a wanna be christian patriot like isn't there a thing of freedom of speech? So you don't have to say it... Well this is America were talking about a lot of things they say contradicts other things they say...
I think is should be re-written to "one nation Under Mrfluffykends" then we all can be happy yes?
but what about all of the people who dont believe in mrfluffykends!?!?!?!then it would be unfair and should be removed because it offends then even tho they dont believe it exists, and is just a name, yet it still offends them for some unknown reason, and they dont have to say it but they still cry over it!!!!!!!
My question is: Why are you offended? You don't have to say anything. By the way, why should we take it out when most Americans believe in god? So we can make a bunch of complaining atheists happy? Also, if we do that, expect there to be more than a few minor successionist civil wars to break out.
But the question still stands: Why are you offended?
Personally i don't really care, if teachers tell me something about not saying the pledge, I'll just tell them that i have rights and what not. But back to your question, do you think the mass murdering of Jews in Germany was right, just because most Germans hated Jews? Did they really have to stop just to please a bunch of complaining "jewlovers" and suffering jews?
Nothing DIRECTLY, but think about it. That other person says it should be kept because believers are a majority. So I say, should the Holocaust not have been stopped just because people who wanted to kill jews were a majority.
You have every right to not say the pledge, or omit words from the pledge if you do not feel they represent you, because that is your right as an American citizen. However, the official pledge should contain, and should always contain, the words "Under God." Like, "In God we trust" on currency, that belief is a foundation of our country, and is therefore part of our history. Our pledge is not a statement of personal opinion, nor is it supposed to be current. The pledge is a historical artifact that we remember to keep our history alive. I feel the name "Pledge of Allegiance" is a misnomer, because it's really not anymore. I do not believe a belief in God precedes citizenship, so in that regard the word Allegiance is not correct anymore. It's more historical than political at this point.
"Nothing DIRECTLY, but think about it. That other person says it should be kept because believers are a majority. So I say, should the Holocaust not have been stopped just because people who wanted to kill jews were a majority."
Umm, communist. I have 2 comments:
1.) Germany was not a democratic nation under Hitler, while America is (arguably, indeed) a democratic nation, so the majority opinion is highly valued in our culture.
2.) What the heck (can we say the real word? Please respond, I'm new to these forums and don't completely know the etiquette) is wrong with you? Not directly related? The killing of millions is not directly related to removing a phrase? Are you out of your mind? Killing, under almost any context (some gray areas, not going to argue that) is wrong. That argument is stuffed with rhetoric, but the logic is horrible.
Can you get back on topic? And waterfish you can say the real word, however "under god" was not part of the original pledge...that piece was added during the cold war. As for you saying that we should keep it like that because that was what our country was founded on is BS because as time progresses things and people change.
Can you get back on topic? And waterfish you can say the real word, however "under god" was not part of the original pledge...that piece was added during the cold war. As for you saying that we should keep it like that because that was what our country was founded on is BS because as time progresses things and people change.
I completely stand corrected and bow to your knowledge of history, Kyouzou. My point does remain that the pledge has become an historical artifact which, unlike the constitution, isn't used to govern citizens, so there's no reason to "update" it, like with the Constitution, which does govern. I would still like to see it remain, as it does stem from America's history (although I embarassingly must admit that history is more fuzzy than I wish it were.) Anyway, in response to you, thanks for the feedback about language and, once again, I admit I was wrong about my facts.
