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Zep0Q
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Zep0Q
71 posts
Nomad

Before you comment, please, read everything, I'm sure that after you read, your life will be changed.

In the following sentences I will explain how stupid is to not believe in God, and I'm gonna use logical thinking and science.

Either "Everything came from nothing", like the "big bang" , witch is impossible, because nothing can only make nothing, or "Something always existed and made everything" like God.

God made this world, by this world I mean time, space and matter, so if God made this world, He lives outside of time, space and matter which means He's eternal, omnipresent and all-powerful.

For those of you who say that the big bang made the universe, I have this sentence: Nothing is the cause of it's own existence.
This doesn't apply to God, because if He doesn't lives in time, He didn't had a beginning, He always existed.
If the universe always was then, we could not reach this moment in time, if something is trapped in time, that means it had a beginning.

Every change that happens everywhere in the universe it's more closer to destruction.
Second law of thermodynamics:
The energy available after a chemical reaction is less than that at the beginning of a reaction; energy conversions are not 100% efficient.
The disorder in the universe always increases.
With each change in form, some energy is degraded to a less useful form and given off into the surroundings, usually as low-quality heat.
The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same, the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.

If God didn't made life, then how did non-life, became life?
As I said, nothing is the cause of it's own existence, life comes from life, your parents were alive when they made you.

Did you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?
I guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?
God made your DNA, of course!

What about the monkeys?
If we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.

What about the fossils?
The scientists say that it takes millions and billions and zilions of years for living tissue to become a fossil, well here's 2 pictures with a cawboy's leg fossilized, enjoy
1#
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-outside.jpg
2#
http://www.bible.ca/tracks/limestone-cowboy-boot-inside.jpg

After all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.
Anyone can ask for forgiveness as long as he or she is not dead, no matter what they did God can forgive them, if they repent from theirs sins and accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
God is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.

John 3:16
"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

  • 881 Replies
thepulse
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thepulse
61 posts
Nomad

Here's my beliefs. -puts up flame shield-

God does exist. However, he's "away from the keyboard" so to speak. He created us, gave us life and the resources to live it. However, he chose not to intervene. God didn't cause famine, early death, war, etc., man caused these because of his own ignorance.

I also believe that the reason God isn't provable is because he doesn't want to be. The best example would be this: there are no believers in science. Its there, its proven, its factual. Therefore, science isn't a religion. Its just THERE. If God was PROVEN to exist, there would be no believers, just a bunch of people who know that he's there.

thoadthetoad
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thoadthetoad
5,642 posts
Peasant

did evolution made your DNA?

Yes! It actually came from RNA.
deserteagle
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deserteagle
1,633 posts
Nomad

Yes! It actually came from RNA.


Which came from nucleic acids and proteins bonding together.
thoadthetoad
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thoadthetoad
5,642 posts
Peasant

Which came from nucleic acids and proteins bonding together.

Yep, that one dude and Urey even experimented upon it!
Ithikhar
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Ithikhar
60 posts
Shepherd

Never in the Old Testament is the devil refered to or considered "evil". And before you point to Job I'd like to clear something up. God says "Hey Lucifer make Job suffer." Lucifer says, "I'd rather not, you do it." So God goes off and he makes Job suffer and tells Lucifer that he, god, was forced to because of Lucifer. and then he commands Lucifer to hurt Job, and because it's a command and Lucifer is the lesser of the two (according to the bible) he has to.

So folks let's look at the facts:

1. God is pretty much a hypocrit
2. Lucifer was FORCED
3. God is essentially evil, not Lucifer


I do point to Job and it says nothing that you claim is said there! It does NOT say God tells satan to make Job suffer, and it does not say that Lucifer declined. Rather, God gave satan the power to strip Job down to his very core, to his raw flesh and bone, but Satan was not given the power to destroy Job. Now you're probably asking, why did God do this to a man that He himself said has "turned away from evil"? To show Satan that no matter what you do to His servants, they will still remain loyal. Wolf1991, no where in Job is there any mention of Satan declining the ability to cause pain and suffering to Job.
The story of Job began with Satan challenging that Job only loves God because of all the gifts He gives Job. So, Satan proposes a challenge to God to stretch out His hand and "strike everything [Job] has, and surely he will curse you to your face." However! This is where God tells Lucifer to go do it, "and the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand. So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord." Job 1:12 NIV.
You see, God trusted Job's faithfulness so much, that he gave satan himself, the power to destroy everything around Job, which he did; he killed all his sons and daughters, all his cattle, and his wife and friends all ridiculed him to denounce God and turn away from Him, but Job never did. Oh, and if God was a hypocrite, then how come when ever Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, they always left flabbergasted when ever they tried to trap Him into contradicting himself. Why not next time, before you blurt out heresy, you examine the passage you're quoting in fullest before making a fool of yourself!
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

The story of Job began with Satan challenging that Job only loves God because of all the gifts He gives Job. So, Satan proposes a challenge to God to stretch out His hand and "strike everything [Job] has, and surely he will curse you to your face.


True, though I have to wonder what God had to prove to Satan?

However! This is where God tells Lucifer to go do it, "and the Lord said to Satan, "Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand. So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord." Job 1:12 NIV.


This is what is being talked about as Satan having to act on it. Since he was told by God to go do it he had to.

Though I have to question one part in Job 2:3 God says it was Satan forcing God to do hurt Job (ridiculous on a number of levels) but in the verse you quoted it was suppose to be in Satans hands to hurt Job. It does says that it was fire from God to cause some harm.

Of course this also put's into question the earlier statement of God not being able to be around sin (or vice versa). In this story Satan is in the presence of God. So if evil can't do this then wouldn't this suggest Satan is not evil?
Ithikhar
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Ithikhar
60 posts
Shepherd

This is what is being talked about as Satan having to act on it. Since he was told by God to go do it he had to.


And it does not say anywhere that God told Satan to go and hurt Job, instead God said that the power to strip Job from all worldly things was now Satan's. It was satan's choice to actually cause the harm to come to Job.

Though I have to question one part in Job 2:3 God says it was Satan forcing God to do hurt Job (ridiculous on a number of levels) but in the verse you quoted it was suppose to be in Satans hands to hurt Job. It does says that it was fire from God to cause some harm.


God didn't harm Job at all. Yes, He gave Satan the ammunition to break Job, but only to prove that Job was steadfast in his integrity to God no matter what Satan threw at Job.

Of course this also put's into question the earlier statement of God not being able to be around sin (or vice versa). In this story Satan is in the presence of God. So if evil can't do this then wouldn't this suggest Satan is not evil?


Satan is not evil. Now stop right there before you go off into a rant. I say that Satan is not evil because you can't have an embodiment of evil, just like you can't have an embodiment of darkness or of cold. Satan physically has the choice to choose to do good, but he is a rebel to the extreme, and does everything sinful. As for "God not being able to be around sin", that is a false statement. God is omnipresent and omnipotent, which means God is every where, anywhere, and is all powerful. Now before you go into the whole "then how 'come God can't make a rock so big that even he can't lift it?" That is a logical fallacy. God's ability to create a rock any size is infinite, as is His limitless strength. It is a paradox, because once the rock is too big to lift, God can still lift it anyway, and thus the rock could still be bigger. Both would go onto infinity, and thus, a paradox.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

And it does not say anywhere that God told Satan to go and hurt Job, instead God said that the power to strip Job from all worldly things was now Satan's. It was satan's choice to actually cause the harm to come to Job.


Right in your own statement that is what you were saying God did.

"However! This is where God tells Lucifer to go do it,"

God didn't harm Job at all.


It doesn't say a fire from Satan, it was an act of God in this instance.

Job 1:16
While he was still speaking, another [messenger] came and said, "A fire from God fell from heaven and completely burned your flocks and servants. I'm the only one who has escaped to tell you."





Job 2:3
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.

While God speaks with Satan he even takes some responsibility for what's happening.

Yes, He gave Satan the ammunition to break Job, but only to prove that Job was steadfast in his integrity to God no matter what Satan threw at Job.


Though I still question what God had to prove to Satan.

I say that Satan is not evil because you can't have an embodiment of evil, just like you can't have an embodiment of darkness or of cold. Satan physically has the choice to choose to do good, but he is a rebel to the extreme, and does everything sinful. As for "God not being able to be around sin",


Well If I'm not to mistaken the claim is if you do sinful acts i.e. evil you yourself are evil or sinful in some way. You say Satan goes out of his way to do sinful acts then by this logic couldn't we say he is evil? Also the claim is God is the embodiment of good or all good(I highly question this given his actions). As such sin ie evil can't exist in his presence. If Satan is indeed this sinful being then wouldn't he have a really hard time standing around talking to God?
No for the record these claims of God and sin aren't mine but came from other Christians. If you find fault in this take it up with them.

God's ability to create a rock any size is infinite, as is His limitless strength. It is a paradox, because once the rock is too big to lift, God can still lift it anyway, and thus the rock could still be bigger. Both would go onto infinity, and thus, a paradox.


So omnipotence is paradox creating a logical fallacy?
wipe42
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wipe42
819 posts
Nomad

because nothing can only make nothing


OK look at an Atom sometime. basically if you go far enough down scientist believe that there is just nothing there but a million little spaces. So I guess this is a wrong statement and nothing can make something. Just look at yourself.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
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Farmer

Well Mage has said anything and everything I would have like to pointed out. But just for the hell of it I have a question. How can you have an embodiment of good (god) and not one of evil?

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Here's a bit of interesting information. The number of people God has killed according to the Bible.
[url=http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html]

Now this is broken down into two columns the left just has the number of kills specifically mentioned in the Bible which comes to a total of 2,608,605 people. The column on the right also includes a rough estimate where the Bible says God killed but doesn't give specific numbers this number comes to around 25,222,380 people.
Now to compare Satan in the Bible is credited with 10 deaths. Even with these ten, Satan shares the responsibility with God.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Mage can you provide that link again to that youtube video on Satan? You know it might help to educate some people.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Sure sorry about that.
http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2010/04/drunk-with-blood-gods-killings-in-bible.html

AnaLoGMunKy
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AnaLoGMunKy
1,573 posts
Blacksmith

Oh, and if God was a hypocrite, then how come when ever Jesus spoke to the Pharisees, they always left flabbergasted when ever they tried to trap Him into contradicting himself.


This is not an argument, its a belief. I dont even believe jesus was a real man as told in the man made bible, which CANNOT be used as a form of evidence.

Why not next time, before you blurt out heresy, you examine the passage you're quoting in fullest before making a fool of yourself!


This is the sign of someone who doesn't like being proven wrong and resorts to insults to keep his "argument" strong.
Highfire
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Highfire
3,025 posts
Nomad

Either "Everything came from nothing", like the "big bang" , witch is impossible, because nothing can only make nothing, or "Something always existed and made everything" like God.

Who says it was nothing? It's simply put that we do not know what was before the Big Bang, except that everything as a result of it was in it before it, well, banged.

God made this world, by this world I mean time, space and matter, so if God made this world, He lives outside of time, space and matter which means He's eternal, omnipresent and all-powerful.

Through magic? How can he even fathom us then if we go through time? He could not have made things over 7 days if he were not related to time - sure, he made it, but as you said - he is outside of time. Logic is flawed, and it shows no evidence or proof to back it up.

For those of you who say that the big bang made the universe, I have this sentence: Nothing is the cause of it's own existence.

Same applies to God, sure you're defending it by saying:

This doesn't apply to God, because if He doesn't lives in time, He didn't had a beginning, He always existed.
If the universe always was then, we could not reach this moment in time, if something is trapped in time, that means it had a beginning.

Again, flawed, he can not make something he is not a part of - and can you explain how he made it, anyway? "Magic" or "Gods power" cuts no evidence or proof out and is a thoroughly unreliable excuse.
Also "he always existed" holds a time reference - ALWAYS. It's contradictory.

If God didn't made life, then how did non-life, became life?
As I said, nothing is the cause of it's own existence, life comes from life, your parents were alive when they made you.

Take the same with concepts - new concepts have been made, and the same happened with life. Scientific situations developed the first life in the form of microscopic organisms, and it adapted, through that, the forms of "spirits", "souls", and the like developed from human brains - but there is no logical reason for them to be.

Did you knew that a 2x2 inch capacity full with someone's DNA can sustain 6000000000 times more information then a 140 GB hard drive?
I guess you didn't knew, did evolution made your DNA?
God made your DNA, of course!

Yeah because evolution can't develop something fantastic over millions of years. It's happening now, incase you didn't realize. Saying "God did it", is essentially THE most laziest explanation of things, ever. If you and others decided to actually look through the scientific path and develop your own hypothesis', religiously unrelated and unquestionably backed up, then you are highly contributing to Scientific research and furthermore you are discovering something for yourself. When you say you use logic and science? You're using philosophical debates and assumptions about God.

What about the monkeys?
If we evolved from them, why they stayed as they are? they took a long coffee break, I guess.

What about all the people dying of starvation, disease and others peoples deeds?
God's just having a coffee break, I guess.
Oh, and also people evolve differently - what do you think would've happened when there's already too much human population in this period of time - what if the monkeys now came with? Even worse.

What about the fossils?
The scientists say that it takes millions and billions and zilions of years for living tissue to become a fossil, well here's 2 pictures with a cawboy's leg fossilized, enjoy

Some scientists say. I don't speak for all, or even for anyone else except me but you are speaking on behalf of every Scientist ever. There probably is scientists who say that, but there are others who look more at "how" rather than "when", do I know for sure? No, but I'm certain you don't either. It's part of Science's course (usually) to be wrong, but when you put it out as Scientists labelling it as the truth and then make this attempt to disprove it... hypocricy, considering you're speaking on behalf of religion.

After all I have showed you, now I'm gonna say that you should accept Jesus as your Lord and Saviour, because He died for our sins and He didn't ask something from us, just to love our brothers and sisters and to believe in Him.

I'll love someone for who they are, not what they are to me.
Also, who says your religion is correct?
Also, who says he died for our sins? As far as I'm concerned God has done more wrong than right - mostly because anything that could possibly be called "right" is actually wrong for specific or indirect reasons.
If he even did it.

God is mercyful and just, His justice is not denyed by His mercy and this is the reason why God sent His Son Jesus to pay the price for us.

I'm on a different computer now, but I think some people may remember that little quote I kept giving. Thus far, this would be the fifth or sixth time I'd use it. One sec... I'll get it now:

Indeed, there are arguments that Christians do not follow that idealogy, but what about if God didn't follow previous Christians' idealogy? If he didn't, he didn't do anything to stop people being murdered in the name of him, he didn't bother aiding those resisting Christianity with undeniable proof. If you follow Christianity, then sorry, but you are siding with Gods contradictory and pretty merciless behaviour (or lack of behaviour).


There we go.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

So you don't see the promises or awesomesauce and threats of eternal pain at all an influential WEAPON?

I really don't have time to get into pointing each thing out right now but perhaps some one else would like that honor.

Certainly not done to your calibre, MageGray, but I think it meets a standard which is acceptable.

Abeogenesis

This Abiogenesis?

I don't sin, so stop telling me I do.

That does annoy me so... dang much. In the end, I think I'll go to MageGrayWolf's profile for a nice quote.

Atheists are often charged with blasphemy, but it is a crime they cannot commit... When the Atheist examines, denounces, or satirises the gods, he is not dealing with persons but with ideas. He is incapable of insulting God, for he does not admit the existence of any such being... We attack not a person but a belief, not a being but an idea, not a fact but a fancy. " -George William Foote

To be quite fair, I do on occasion indirectly (or even directly if I feel stupid or entitled enough) insult those who follow. :/

Not saying it isn't justified, not saying it is - it's another matter entirely, the point is, I don't do sins because I don't believe in God, I do my best not to do bad deeds, specifically, so not even that is a proper argument.

and what created god? you can't just assume everything came from nothing I know.... but aren't you assuming that if you believe in a god?

With this law of thermodynamics - 100% energy cannot be gotten from another form of energy - does that not mean God has dimmed power? Even if he could, you know, interact with space, time and etc.

evolution is a long process, they could still be evolving from whatever they evolved from before being monkeys.

You can see the differences quite easily over time. Oh - and the similiarities.

nobody is perfect.

Yeah, and saying that makes it all better.

At least make the dang attempt, ironically scientists learn more about the human brain and how we can be vulnerable, for instance.

Does religion further the stopping of flaw? No, instead it says "Do it and you can be forgiven!". You know, if you spend the time committing the crime and not asking for forgiveness, however, then you didn't refund your ticket to hell. Yeah - that's logical.

/end rant?

- H
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