Yes, that's the argument many hardcore republicans are making >.>
Apparently the republican party cares more about making sure they can beat Obama in the 2012 election than actually giving people what they need... a new health care system. Examples?
1.) Scaring and using propaganda on the elderly. They are telling them that Obama's new health care system for some reason won't cover them... Where did they get this? In the bill it says that elderly will have the CHOICE to make their will and have it covered by health care... and will be able to CHOOSE if they get to the point where they are being supported by a machine to have the plug pulled or not...
2.) Using one of the Politician's favorite weapons... name calling. Yes they are calling Obama a socialist and scaring the crap out of everyone... of course they are only scaring the moderates and right wingers, but still with lies. Most left wingers realize that socialized health care isn't bad. However by saying that socialized medicine and health care will be forced on you is just a BIG FAT LIE. Which is what most of the republican party is, big fat liars. However I'm not saying they all are... take Sarah Palin she's a Hot Skinny Liar xD
So yeah what do you think of this? Republicans using lies and propaganda to try and secure an election in 2012 instead of trying to work together and give America what they need? Good or Bad? I'm pretty sure it's obvious
Is government health care really that much worse than corperate health care? A lot of things pointed out that will be wrong with the government health care system already seem to be wrong with corperate health care. Insurance companies are a allowed to dictate the kind care people recieve. If they deem something a "reexisting" condition their allowed to deny coverage for it. So if you have a heart condition that requires you to get a transplant your insurance company can tell you that it was a preexisting condition and refuse to cover it. Insurance companies can also drop people they decide are making too many claims. So your insurance company is allowed to say "Hey you better not get sick or have an accident because if you do we won't cover you anymore." Can people really help it if they get sick? Sure you can take all reasonable precautions to try to keep from getting sick, you can do you best it keep from being injured, but unless you never leave your house or go around in a padded plastic bubble chances are you're going to get sick or be injured at some point. People who have to go through treatments for serious illnesses often end up being dropped because insurance companies just don't want to have to pay for it. Don't people pay for insurance so that they don't have to worry about paying the insanely high prices of medical care out of pocket? I don't know. I'm not totally for government controlled health care, but I also haven't read the bill so I don't know everything it entails. It's obvious though that the American health care system needs reform, the biggest issue is how to bring reform that people will be happy with.
I'll also state that I think everyone having access to health care they need is absolutely mandatory, and I do believe the government should have a role in it. But what's going down here in the US right now? I wouldn't compare it to already existing universal health care systems. In fact, I really have no idea what I would compare it to, and that concerns me.
A little about me, I'm currently in debt for paying medical expenses out of my own pocket. So I'm really, really concerned with my own comfort levels here. Also, I am biased from having many, many bad experiences with government employees who are supposedly civil servants put in place for MY best interest. And when you get involved in the government's social support programs, you tend to meet/click with other people in the same boat. From talking with all the other people in similar life situations, I've come to realize that my experiences with gov employees are in fact the norm.
It will color every post I write on the topic, because I'm frankly frightened at how things are going right now.
A lot of things pointed out that will be wrong with the government health care system already seem to be wrong with corperate health care.
I will reference my post on page 3 and again encourage you to research the history of government's involvement in the medical industry on your own time.
Has anybody seen these town hall meetings about health care a few guys watch some fear mongering on fox then repeat what they hear in the town hall meeting not by waiting and then saying it but yelling it as soon as they hear it meaning who ever is explaining anything doesn't get chance to explain which leaves people uninformed, and then fox has the nerves to show the people yelling at the town hall meetings yelling the point they made a day before.
If Fox stops it's crazy fear mongering then maybe will be able to get some facts and then critisize the health care plan using those facts instead of yelling "OBAMA WANTS TO KILL BABIES AND OLD PEOPLE".
Veobahamut, there's a lot of very regular individuals going to these townhall meetings. The mainstream media has gone to great lengths to insult the average American attending these by painting the entire crowd as racist or fear mongering.
And what if Obama was, in fact, in favor of killing babies and old people? And what if he's not alone in that? You realize that leaders adopting such policies for their people is not unprecedented, right?
Millions of people throughout time have led miserable lives and suffered horrible deaths so that YOU can learn from humanity's mistakes. Go read history... please.
I don't understand the significance of the town hall meetings to us. Unless the intelligent American has their questions answered, the average American critic or supporter of Obama doesn't do a whole lot to change my opinion. I'm not going to think less of Obama because a crowd of people I don't know booed him. I'm not going to think more of Obama because a crowd of people I don't know cheered for him. The town hall meetings are supposed to get questions answered, and since that hasn't happened, at least not to a significant extent, this shouldn't have any significance on our opinions.
I don't understand the significance of the town hall meetings to us. Unless the intelligent American has their questions answered, the average American critic or supporter of Obama doesn't do a whole lot to change my opinion. I'm not going to think less of Obama because a crowd of people I don't know booed him. I'm not going to think more of Obama because a crowd of people I don't know cheered for him. The town hall meetings are supposed to get questions answered, and since that hasn't happened, at least not to a significant extent, this shouldn't have any significance on our opinions.
That's a very good point, however I have a question. What should have significance on our opinions?
I think that our goal should be to better understand the health care bill; that's a hard thing to accomplish, especially since both sides are going to tell it from their view only, but if this is a good plan, we're going to need it. And if it's not, we can't afford to fall any further. I think the stakes are too high for us to be worried about the critics and supporters that move around the question.
I just think that, while some people might be swayed because they think they're "going with the crowd", that shouldn't have any significance on the people trying to actually make an informed decision. It's the future of our health care, not a popularity contest.
By the way, that rant wasn't directed at you, just at people who would think that way. I was only actually saying that because I saw a debate on the previous page about who went to town hall meetings.
You can bet that many of the people going to the townhall meetings are highly intelligent and come from the roughly 50% demographic that actually votes. When I say average, I don't mean of average intelligence. I mean of average ways of life. They have average concerns. Do you think, for instance, that elite ruling members in Washington truly have a grasp on or even care about the everyday concerns of your typical working American citizen?
Most of the people at those townhall meetings simply have way more vested in the outcome of this legislation than members of congress. So while you have members of legislature who can't seem to get around to reading 1000 pages of a bill they're trying to pass (when this is their job), apparently some everyday citizens seem to have found the time to do it outside of their regular jobs and lives. Average Americans have historically been above average at keeping government in check. We've been slipping away from that for quite some time, but after Obama is done with his term I predict a shift in favor of conservatism.
I wasn't questioning their intelligence. I'm only saying that booing and cheering aren't going to affect my opinion because there are many intelligent ways to look at the bill. When intelligent questions I may have had myself are answered, then it will have an effect on my opinion.
