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RickersXS
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RickersXS
80 posts
Nomad

When Rhys Jones got shot everyone got in a rage about how guns are bad but guns are inanimate objects so that cant be bad because their not alive

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goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

is ruining human lives.

I said ruining, there are many ways to use a gun example a crazy guy takes a hostage does he kill, maybe yes, maybe no, does this gun do anything useful to anybody? Does it help to solve any problem?
In the Olympics there's about 5 events which include guns.

yes, it's an Olympic sport even though guns aren't part of the Olympic spirit.
I admit that guns are needed in our society, but why we can't try to change this?

A fanatic is one who sticks to his guns whether they're loaded or not.
Franklin P. Jones
Somers
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Somers
1,532 posts
Nomad

People kill people, guns are merely objects

Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

People kill people, guns are merely objects


Murder is to a Gun
as
A Math Problem is to A Calculator.

People are going to do a lot more math if they have a calculator...
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

People are going to do a lot more math if they have a calculator...


Funny you say that, because there are a hell of a lot of guns in Canada per capita, yet we don't have the same rates of violent and gun related crime as the U.S.A.

If what you say is true, murder rates with guns should be similar, but since they are not it's an easy assumption to make that there must be another explanation.

Should we outlaw kitchen knives & cutlery too?
RickersXS
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RickersXS
80 posts
Nomad

does this gun do anything useful to anybody

No but it doesnt do any harm either

I admit that guns are needed in our society, but why we can't try to change this?

Because their needed. Thats like saying lets all get rid of our livers

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

@ quickshift knives can be used for other things like eating what can you use a gun for besides killing?

Shooting for fun, as a hobby (assembling and disassembling, etc.)

Guns aren't primarily for killing people, actually.

Guns are inanimate objects, so therefore cannot be intrinsically evil.

Guns are used solely for killing.


Do I even have to explain how fantastically incorrect this statement is?

Murder is to a Gun
as
A Math Problem is to A Calculator.


Guns aren't primarily used for the illegal killing of a human being. That's bullsh**.

Guns aren't solely used for killing, and calculators aren't solely used for math. Your analogy is biased and incorrect.

People are going to do a lot more math if they have a calculator...


Okay, I guess I DO have to explain how this is wrong.

Calculators are not instruments to multiply math itself, calculators are instruments to make math easier. People don't avoid math because they don't have a calculator, people avoid math because people don't like math. A calculator isn't going to make math fun, so people won't do more math if they have calculators. Guns are simply weapons, sometimes used maliciously - they don't make killing necessarily easier - they just make killing faster and messier. In fact, you're more likely to be *caught* if you murder with a gun.

Owning a gun doesn't want to make you kill people. That's an emotional appeal - sand one of the stupidest ones I've ever heard. And I live in an pro-life, conservative state in the midwest.

Therefore, your analogy fails. Badly. To the point that it's bordering on propaganda thought up by a 3rd grader.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

Funny you say that, because there are a hell of a lot of guns in Canada per capita, yet we don't have the same rates of violent and gun related crime as the U.S.A.
If what you say is true, murder rates with guns should be similar, but since they are not it's an easy assumption to make that there must be another explanation.


We have different guns. Our guns are for shooting deer (which is also wrong). But the guns in the United States are of a different kind. They are the handguns, the easy to use, less bulky, cool looking guns.

Because their needed. Thats like saying lets all get rid of our livers


Guns aren't needed. Are you saying people couldn't live without guns? Because we can't live without livers. Before there were guns, there was man.
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Wow, my post sounds a lot meaner posted then it did when I wrote it ._.

Sorry, lol.

Also. . . .

Correction: Calculators are used pretty much solely for math, so this 'aren't' here:

calculators aren't solely used for math


should be an 'are.'

^_^
HiddenDistance
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HiddenDistance
1,310 posts
Peasant

We have different guns. Our guns are for shooting deer (which is also wrong).


I don't agree with the second part, deer = food.

From the first part though - we have different guns (as if they don't sell pistols and people don't own them in Canada), so are you saying that Canadians own the kind that aren't bad? If so, that's more an argument for guns not being bad then guns being bad.

They are the handguns, the easy to use, less bulky, cool looking guns.


Aesthetics are a matter of taste; personally I feel rifles and shotguns are better looking then a dinky pistol. Also on that note - shotguns and rifles are likely to be *far* more lethal then a 9mm pistol, so technically they're even worse in terms of their lethality.

Every gun is easy to use if you spent a few minutes learning how to use it; and if you have a gun, legally or illegally, you can easily figure out on your own how to take the safety off, how to load it, and how to fire it.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

Owning a gun doesn't want to make you kill people.


Nope. I never said it would. I said it makes it easier to do on a whim.

Calculators are not instruments to multiply math itself, calculators are instruments to make math easier. People don't avoid math because they don't have a calculator, people avoid math because people don't like math. A calculator isn't going to make math fun, so people won't do more math if they have calculators.


Yes, a calculator makes math easier, not fun. And a gun makes killing easier, not fun.

they don't make killing necessarily easier - they just make killing faster and messier


Making something faster makes it easier. Busy people will go out for dinner less if they buy on of those nu wave ovens that cooks steak in 10 minutes!

Guns aren't primarily for killing people, actually.


What are they for then? What was the purpose when invented?

Guns are inanimate objects, so therefore cannot be intrinsically evil.


If you want to be literal about it, this is a moral thread, who really cares about picking apart the original statement, the discussion is evolving past it.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

From the first part though - we have different guns (as if they don't sell pistols and people don't own them in Canada), so are you saying that Canadians own the kind that aren't bad? If so, that's more an argument for guns not being bad then guns being bad.


1) I'm not stupid. I do believe they sell pistols in Canada, but I somehow have a feeling if you remove the hunting kind of guns, our gunerson ratio will be much smaller.

2)No, all guns are bad. But as I said, ours are be less bad

3)This topic has made me think of the movie Bowling for Columbine 4 times already. In that movie Michael Moore points out that Canadians have more guns per person and less shootings. But he also points out the ease of obtaining guns and bullets. In Canada it is much more difficult to obtain a gun. This supports my previous statement of shootings being more likely, the easier you make them to perpetrate.
Sarthra21
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Sarthra21
1,078 posts
Nomad

It is not the weapon that kill, but the person. It wouldn't be the gun that should be sent to jail, but the person who fired it. Guns themselves are not bad, but the people armed with them could very well be.

thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Yes, a calculator makes math easier, not fun. And a gun makes killing easier, not fun.


You said that if people had a calculator, they would do a lot more math - I was making that remark in rebuttal to your analogy, not your argument as a whole. Please don't take my words out of context.

Nope. I never said it would. I said it makes it easier to do on a whim.


Once again, through your analogy, you said that if you own a gun, you will do a lot more killing. This is untrue. Once again, you took y words out of context, so this point is totally invalid.

Making something faster makes it easier. Busy people will go out for dinner less if they buy on of those nu wave ovens that cooks steak in 10 minutes!


Going out for dinner requires less work than cooking a steak in an oven. . . .

Fail, lol.

What are they for then?


They're not 'for' any one thing. They're for hunting, collecting, putting on display, assembling, disassembling, educational purposes, shooting on shooting rnages, *and* killing people. They were invented for. . . .

Siege, by the Chinese in the mid 1100s.
They were invented as a siege weapon, not an anti-personnel weapon - and they weren't used against people until the 13-1400s when aristocrats would duel.

Point isa, guns shouldn't be outlawed because they rarely kill people. That's like outlawing knives because they can kill people. Or like outlawing rope because it can kill people. Or like outlawing fast food because it can kill people. Fact is, just because something can kill people doesn't mean it should be outlawed. That's squeamish paranoia.

I do think guns should be heavily regulated, but not banned.

If you want to be literal about it, this is a moral thread, who really cares about picking apart the original statement, the discussion is evolving past it.


I wasn't picking apart the original statement, I was answering the question the thread presents: are guns bad? I say no, because inanimate objects can't be intrinsically evil. Is logic so bad?

Also. . .this is a debate thread, not a moral thread.
tennisman24
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tennisman24
4,682 posts
Farmer

They are not bad!

They might do bad things but they aren'd bad.

Wars actually probably wouldn't go on without guns, that is good.

Xzeno
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Xzeno
2,301 posts
Nomad

I do think guns should be heavily regulated, but not banned.
After all you said, why do you say this. What is the reason for "heavy regulation"? What "heavy regulation" do you think is necessary?
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