ForumsWEPRMoney- Creation or downfall?

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ComradeWolf
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ComradeWolf
358 posts
Nomad

Now, just to clear this up, Im hoping that people who submit on this topic keep it generally light hearted and not into any great arguments. It strains our eyes to red arguments.

Money. The simplest of systems, and originally, it was created for a payment for services. Yes it has been effective... but it was used to cover for the barter system.

Now the barter system as you know, is trading items for items, is equil, and fair. (not including the fact that you could steal.... any system has that flaw -_-)

But, who invented this system? but then I came to a conclusion. It was the rich people. People who managed to hoard much resources from the rest of us people. And they didnt want to give away items for payment for services, so they made this money.

But, just so that the working clas wouldnt save up enough to get enough resources, they made taxes, to control us.

I always found this really, really unfair, and this is not a thing for communuism or captilism, Both of these systems could work without money, just it would make the two more fair in my eyes. Now you may have a diffrent perspective, and dont get me wrong, I may be wrong in my ways. But This topic is simply what you think of it, and express yourself here about this topic.

  • 18 Replies
goumas13
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goumas13
4,752 posts
Grand Duke

But, just so that the working class wouldn't save up enough to get enough resources, they made taxes, to control us.

The purpose of the creation of taxes was the redistribution of income, wealth or property from some individuals to others. The richer persons pay more taxes than the poor, so with the money the state earns from taxes some services can be offered examples are free education, health-care etc.
Money is the most efficient way. The barter system has too many flaws, you have to carry always an item to exchange and some items are heavy and it's not very amusing wondering around carrying something like a TV. Also how do you know that the time A is worth X items B? You may trade an apple for two eggs and later you may not be able to buy anything with an apple, because the other trader does not like apples anymore.
zocc1
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zocc1
183 posts
Nomad

Well money as in gold coins an such that always used to be used until lately had value just like any item or service, when paper money started being used it was required to be backed up in $1 worth of gold for every dollar but as time went on, it was backed less and less until now I'm not even sure it's backed at all with gold, just reputation, so all it really is is a piece of paper that really isn't worth anything, and at any time could have tons of copies printed. The main problem I see is that gold keeps on costing more, gold should ALWAYS stay the same price because the dollar is supposed to be equal to the same certain amount of gold which shouldn't be changing, and if the price of gold does go up the amount of bills being printed should be slowed down, if the price of gold goes down the amount of bills being printed should go up... That's how I think of it, but Money is great in most ways, bartering would be extremely hard to do here. Lol you would have to trade your soal for your first car, maybe your wife and kids for a house...

DuneDaDude
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DuneDaDude
4 posts
Nomad

they both fall lol

playaholic
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playaholic
1,098 posts
Farmer

id rather trade my psp for a wii than trade a few thousand for a wii,so i think it is kinda dumb,with money,you've got a subject called econ,stupid right?

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Money was invented to accurately measure value. You may think it is an imperfect system, but I see no better alternatives.

ComradeWolf
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ComradeWolf
358 posts
Nomad

Im not saying its a bad system, and no system is perfect. But the thing is, we have corrupted its purpose, and it is not always used to equilly redistrubute goods and resources. Richer people are not always taxed as much. Goverment employee's, who are rich,( This isn't always the case, Im jsut saying for certain people and not specificalyl in any nation.)

Do not pay taxes. Same as certain CEO's, and other rich people, including celeberities, and so on. Also when celeberities get in jail, nto always but many times, do nto get as long sentences and do not pay the total amount in fines and so on. So really money is not a fair system. But its not a bad system either.

However, in my OPINION It is a much more fairer and equil system then money, so Barter vs Money, Barter wins for being mroe fiar. However we have the had the money system for so long, it we couldnt just rapidly change back.
Deosnt mean we cant change at all though. Jsut a thought.

FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

we have corrupted its purpose,


Other than making things easier, remind me what its purpose was again?

it is not always used to equilly redistrubute goods and resources.


Why should it be?

Richer people are not always taxed as much.


The rich pay proportionately much, much more than the poor. It's called progressive taxation.

So really money is not a fair system. But its not a bad system either.


What you are complaining about has nothing to do with money vs bartering. If we lived in a barter economy these problems would still exist.

I'd also like to point out that it's strange for you to argue for the barter system for the reason that it's not as fair, seeing as during the time it existed most civilisations lived under a feudal system. One of the least egalitarian there is.
Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

This is a pretty useless thread -- Money just measures accurate value. Taxing people with money versus grain is no different. If we were all landowning agricultural farmers and others were peasants that picked up our harvest then the peasants and we would all pay grain together, us being taxed by the government in grain instead of money.

ComradeWolf
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ComradeWolf
358 posts
Nomad

Yes but who said there has to be taxes in the first place?
If our goverment, is supposed to keep order by being a middleman or someone who controls the affairs of state, besides of what they actually require to rule a huge population, why would they need taxes at all? if we were taxed on grain, wouldnt it be more of a system of reprising our stocks in times of famine?

I see the point of money, but, Really this isnt a argumentive thread. Its more of what you think of the very purpose of money, whether it's purpose, the very idea it had its brith from, is now flawed, or it still is the greatest economical invention we have so far seen? In my eyes, the Barter system works well, But that is only my opinion. You may differ on your veiws, and I respect that however, Explain your reasoning, because Money isn't always the exact measurement of value, considering for example, diffrent currencies, which are comrpised more to do with political national doings then with global economics, but say I gave you, 20 USA dollars for 3 watermelons. (jsut a example, not using real prices.)

But then you go to another nation, with a considerably lower currency, and 1 US dollar could buy you 10 watermelons.

Now the reason currencies do drop, is because of many factors. There could be too many prints for that one currency, which is often the case in Africa, where they overprinted their money and now it is far less value. And there is sometimes sanctions involved, and ect. But the thing is, Barter, is a system, in which that cannot change, if you give a A car, and in return, you get 4 machine guns, that fact wont change anywhere, unless demand for it is really high in certain parts, where cars/machine guns are rare, perhaps it could fetch a higher price. But even then, it would still be fair, because often whatever your trading to match the rare items price, often is something you have accsess of, and not neccassarily a huge loss if you give much of it away. Money is like that as wlel, but it represents problems, such as the fact, in bare survival terms for the least, you cant use it as any tool or provision. But with barter, ussualyl whatever you get, is a item you can use, or make into something, so in truth, Barter has many points for it to be useful. But, Barter does have problems, and I realize that. So... I have a idea then


If we were to revert back, if onyl somewaht, Perhaps, We use both systems, cut money's control in half, and replace that half with barter, so you could go either way with people.

That way, everyone is happy, and you could trade vice versa.

Hydraulic
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Hydraulic
223 posts
Nomad

Not gonna say something huge but just this...

But, who invented this system? but then I came to a conclusion. It was the rich people. People who managed to hoard much resources from the rest of us people. And they didnt want to give away items for payment for services, so they made this money.


Technically, it was the Phoenicians, wasn't it?
FireflyIV
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FireflyIV
3,224 posts
Nomad

Explain your reasoning, because Money isn't always the exact measurement of value, considering for example, diffrent currencies, which are comrpised more to do with political national doings then with global economics, but say I gave you, 20 USA dollars for 3 watermelons. (jsut a example, not using real prices.)


Just because national politics can influence the value of a particular currency, it doesn't make that measure innacurate. In fact, currencies nowadays are tied to the value of homogeneous commodities.

I will never accept your assertion that the barter system works well or at least better than a system of money, because nowadays, with so many varieties of products available, it would be almost impossible to quantify.

Also, practicalities. Which is easier, going to the supermarket with a credit card/cash that must weigh only a few grams, or going to the supermarket with a wheelbarrow full of tradeable items?

The barter system may have been applicable in the Middle Ages, but not any more.
TheDude42
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TheDude42
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Nomad

No matter how much it can be a downfall, money progresses the human race. Many people explored the Americas in search of money. The USA got the Louisiana Purchase in exchange for money. Bill Gate's company, Microsoft, revolutionized the technological world.

NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

But, who invented this system? but then I came to a conclusion. It was the rich people.


Because we all know that rich people are EVIL! THEY WILL EAT YOUR BABIES AND RAPE YOUR FOOD! THEY WILL KILL EVERYONE UNLESS YOU BOW DOWN TO THEM AND SELL YOUR SOUL TO THEIR SYSTEM!!!!!!!!!

Before money, objects such as rice was used as currency. Money replacesd objects such as rice because those objects held different values to different people.

Money was not created so that taxation could be implemented so the rich could become richer. That conspiracy is just stupid.
TSL3_needed
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TSL3_needed
5,579 posts
Nomad

Before money, objects such as rice was used as currency. Money replacesd objects such as rice because those objects held different values to different people.


And before rice was rocks. And before rocks were uncivilized murders.

That conspiracy is just stupid.


I agree.
tomertheking
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tomertheking
1,751 posts
Jester

**** YOUR FOOD


HUH?

money in itself is nessesary after the first start of globalazation. What whould you perfer: a ton of rice or a heavy wallet? and ecpetially when you want to trade with distant places.

But it does have it minuses.

Very good topic.
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