Forums → WEPR → Planetary Expansion of the Human Race

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Red42321

11 posts

Nomad

Posted October 5, '09 1:26am UTC

What I'd like to discuss in this thread is theories related to how the human race will advance, in regards to planetary expansion. This is important, because eventually, Earth will no longer be able to sustain human life. Whether it be caused by man, or natural events, Earth won't last forever. If the human race wants to survive, we must expand sooner or later.

I believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon. Currently, NASA is planning to create a Lunar Outpost, sometime between the years of 2019 and 2024. If this goes as planned, the colonization of the Moon will take a great leap forward. It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon, and even longer until the colonies are able to sustain themselves; but the base of all future operations will have been established. Additionally, the colonization of the Moon will set the system by which nations claim land on all planets.

Will humans work together as one unit to colonize the solar system, and eventually the universe; or will future planets work the same as Earth, fighting amongst itself; leading to disestablishment eventually. If the latter is chosen, and nations are established, will they stay in collaboration with the government of other planets, or will there be no alliance between the human race?

I apologize for getting a bit astray from my topic of Moon colonization, but it's all very interesting stuff.

The next step, after successfully establishing a stable, time weathered Lunar government, is to colonize another planet. Most likely Mars. Of course, Mars is more likely to allow humans to live a life comparable to what their Earth dwelling ancestors live; due to its ability to be terraformed, while we are unsure whether or not the Moon could be terraformed.

Here is an artists interpretation of what a terraformed Moon may look like.

And here is the possible terraformation (word?) process of Mars.

Note the resemblance to Earth that the terraformed Mars has.

Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus, which would be a much more difficult challenge than either the Moon or Mars.

I'm not going to get into the details of the process (as it's quite complicated), but if you would like to learn more about it the information is online. I will show you pictures however, showing the change that would need to be made. Something to note, is that due to global warming, Venus is the warmest planet in our solar system. Could that be the fate of Earth, after abandoned? Only to be once again terraformed and restored by another species, or the descendants of the long forgotten inhabitants of Earth?

Current state of Venus

Artists rendition of a terraformed Venus

Please keep in mind, that this entire thread is based purely on theories, some person, and that in no event should my outline be thought of as the end all, be all, of human expansion. It's simply what I believe may or may not happen, depending on events of the next few decades, and century.

I know this is a very long OP, so I won't go into detail about other discussion points, but I would like to point them out.

*Effect on humans, as a species? How would living on these planets affect the evolutionary path of humans?
*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?
*Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?

Your views on the entire matter?

What I'd like to discuss in this thread is theories related to how the human race will advance, in regards to planetary expansion. This is important, because eventually, Earth will no longer be able to sustain human life. Whether it be caused by man, or natural events, Earth won't last forever. If the human race wants to survive, we must expand sooner or later.\r\n\r\nI believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon. Currently, NASA is planning to create a Lunar Outpost, sometime between the years of 2019 and 2024. If this goes as planned, the colonization of the Moon will take a great leap forward. It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon, and even longer until the colonies are able to sustain themselves; but the base of all future operations will have been established. Additionally, the colonization of the Moon will set the system by which nations claim land on all planets.\r\n\r\nWill humans work together as one unit to colonize the solar system, and eventually the universe; or will future planets work the same as Earth, fighting amongst itself; leading to disestablishment eventually. If the latter is chosen, and nations are established, will they stay in collaboration with the government of other planets, or will there be no alliance between the human race?\r\n\r\nI apologize for getting a bit astray from my topic of Moon colonization, but it's all very interesting stuff.\r\n\r\nThe next step, after successfully establishing a stable, time weathered Lunar government, is to colonize another planet. Most likely Mars. Of course, Mars is more likely to allow humans to live a life comparable to what their Earth dwelling ancestors live; due to its ability to be terraformed, while we are unsure whether or not the Moon could be terraformed. \r\n\r\nHere is an artists interpretation of what a terraformed Moon may look like.\r\n\r\n[img]http://www.cosmosfrontier.com/files/TerraformedMoonFromEarth2.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nAnd here is the possible terraformation (word?) process of Mars. \r\n\r\n[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/MarsTransitionV.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nNote the resemblance to Earth that the terraformed Mars has. \r\n\r\nScientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus, which would be a much more difficult challenge than either the Moon or Mars. \r\n\r\nI'm not going to get into the details of the process (as it's quite complicated), but if you would like to learn more about it the information is online. I will show you pictures however, showing the change that would need to be made. Something to note, is that due to global warming, Venus is the warmest planet in our solar system. Could that be the fate of Earth, after abandoned? Only to be once again terraformed and restored by another species, or the descendants of the long forgotten inhabitants of Earth?\r\n\r\nCurrent state of Venus\r\n[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/29/venus_narrowweb__300x336,0.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nArtists rendition of a terraformed Venus\r\n[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/TerraformedVenus.jpg/200px-TerraformedVenus.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nPlease keep in mind, that this entire thread is based purely on theories, some person, and that in no event should my outline be thought of as the end all, be all, of human expansion. It's simply what I believe may or may not happen, depending on events of the next few decades, and century.\r\n\r\nI know this is a very long OP, so I won't go into detail about other discussion points, but I would like to point them out.\r\n\r\n*Effect on humans, as a species? How would living on these planets affect the evolutionary path of humans?\r\n*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?\r\n*Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?\r\n\r\nYour views on the entire matter?

109 Replies

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Red42321

11 posts

Nomad

Posted October 5, '09 1:30am UTC

I apologize for the huge image. Go here to view it normal sized/

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thisisnotanalt

9,826 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:33am UTC

Sorry, terraforming Venus is almost impossible, unless we fill the entire solar system with air and get giant fans to dissipate the atmosphere.

Mars and the Moon are feasible, though. Though the Moon would need some sort of amped-up gravity to be able to hold the atmosphere together.

Mars is the only truly feasible planet for terraforming at this time, since it used to have oceans, rivers, a water cycle, and an Earthlike climate.

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Flippin3500

2,587 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:36am UTC

This is really interesting. I want to visit the moon before my life is over. It may or may not be possible but it it still one of my dreams.

Also, how might a planet be terraformed?

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thisisnotanalt

9,826 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:39am UTC

Algaes that pruduce oxygen, massive tanks full of gases, etc.

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Flippin3500

2,587 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:43am UTC

How long would that take? It seems like a pretty confusing process.

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thisisnotanalt

9,826 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:48am UTC

I've heard estimations of about 120 years for Mars.

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Red42321

11 posts

Nomad

Posted October 5, '09 1:54am UTC

Sorry, terraforming Venus is almost impossible

Currently, that's the case. But who knows, 500 years from now, there may be technology to do it easily. I decided to mention it because even though right now it's far beyond our capacity, the entire idea of planetary expansion depends on the future, so it goes along with it.

How long would that take?

I've searched around a bit, and seen predictions of one hundred or so years, all the way up to 800. My question with that is, would we be able to keep the operation going for 800 years? An awful lot will happen in that time, and the project could easily be scrapped. Will we be onto bigger and better things, before Mars is finished?

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Flippin3500

2,587 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 5, '09 1:54am UTC

Dang. What about the moon?

I wonder how crowded it would be on the moon if the entire population of Earth was there.

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balerion07

2,843 posts

Peasant

Posted October 5, '09 8:05am UTC

The entire population of the Earth can fit in Jacksonville Florida. We would have more than enough space, but to try to transport everyone there would be a futile attempt because more babies would be born than could be sent.

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playaholic

1,102 posts

Farmer

Posted October 6, '09 8:17am UTC

no,we are not gonna terraform a planet,you cant build an atmosphere,atleast not now,you are gonna be doing MJ's moonwalk in a space suit,and you got a fully covered base/city/whatever that is filled with air from plants,which are exported from earth,and will be kept in some chamber,under the base/city/whatever,full of lightbulbs,where all our oxygen comes from,of cours,you need a small amount of air as well

and yes,its real,and by approx.2012,the first few colonies will move to moon,but for now, there are no plans to mars(thats what i read),except for the looking for any more possible sites for some base/city/whatever

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playaholic

1,102 posts

Farmer

Posted October 6, '09 8:39am UTC

umm,pls dont fight,i only think that terraforming a planet is impossible,so sorry,but is terraforming just a part of a planet possible?then even if the project is scrapped,there will be small livable sections of the planet

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balerion07

2,843 posts

Peasant

Posted October 6, '09 9:33am UTC

You think they can't find oxygen on mars? Sigh. Electrolysis for one. Not to mention whats in the crust. All you have to do is the correct chemical reactions. Won't happen anyway but there is no way we would transport air to mars.

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playaholic

1,102 posts

Farmer

Posted October 6, '09 10:24am UTC

but scientists think its better to just bring in the plants,its easy,and you have an unlimited supply as long as the plants get what they need for photosynthesis and do not die,if they wanted oxygen from crust,why not oxygen from rusting metal first?
(sorry for anything offensive,out of point,or bad)

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tomthesniper

309 posts

Nomad

Posted October 6, '09 10:32am UTC

All these things are possible. It just takes time.

offline

Elitemagical

1,209 posts

Nomad

Posted October 6, '09 3:59pm UTC

I believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon.

Only if Centaur Upper-Stage successfully hits the moon, and LunarCROSS can find water. If not NASA will have to work out other sites on the moon that may contain water.

It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon

Virgin are already working on 'space tourism' for the everyday human.

due to its ability to be terraformed

Mars? Very unlikely. There was an asteroid that was found in Antartica (I believe it was called AH84001), which had dead single cell organisms on it, there is nearly no water, and it takes almost two years to reach there making food supplies sparse.

Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus

What a ridiculous idea: the surface is made up of volcanoes, the clouds are made of battery acid, the planet is over 400 degrees Celsius. All the previous probes to Venus failed horribly:

Venera 3: Crushed
Venera 7: Lasted 23 minutes
Venera 13: Lasted 2 hours

All built and sent by the USSR, attempting for successful landing failed horribly, NASA have not even attempted to land there with probes. How you expect natural terraforming is insane. Look at Venus's climate as intense global warming: Venus is quite literally beyond repair, and unless we get very good heat protection there is no way we will successfully land, let alone terraform.

I am not expert, but that is what I believe. Some of this may not be entirely true, I am dragging this from memory, so I do not want too much flame.

Anyway, now for the questions:

*Effect on humans, as a species?

Quite hard to foresee exactly what would happen. Unless terraforming does work in the near future it will be near impossible. If it does work then I believe the planets will be divided into countries, but only 1st world countries: the only people that can get there. There will be many issues over whom will own the various countries that are split by their borders, but I certainly do not think they will put the entire planet under dictatorship or a selected government. As a race this will be an outstanding breakthrough and besides the wars that may be created will help our expansion and dominance.
As a person leaving this planet would be great. The Ancient Greeks dreamed of having swans fly them to the moon, and in the 1500s people would look to the stars and planets and wonder what it was like: finally we could see what our ancestors had always awed and watched; observed with great amazement.

*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?

I think we could get to Mars: we'll definitely get to the moon. Technology is ever evolving and soon humans might look back on these days and see us as utter idiots!
After all, the human race should live for a few million years more. I think we will expand to the edge of our Solar System, but after that there is the Oort Cloud and the abyss of dark, lifeless space. The nearest star will be Alpha Centauri which are about to cataclysmically smash into one another, and any planets further than that are invisible at the moment.

Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?

Once many planets get colonized I think there will start being tyrannies for the planets. If we stay within the same solar system, then I do not think the humans will disassociate themselves, however if we do make it past the Oort cloud and into distant solar systems: yes it is very probable, especially with genetic mutation in development.

---

I am no great expert on this subject, but that's what I believe. Space colonization is a good idea, but I think NASA are planning to go to Europa (one of the Galilean Moons), since fly-by missions have suggested there is the existence of water beneath the surface.
At the moment I have no theories about how we'll get into space colonization, because I cannot guess if the vital technologies required to get successful space colonization will be around, nor do I have enough expertise on this field of science.

[quote]I believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon.[/quote]\r\n\r\nOnly if Centaur Upper-Stage successfully hits the moon, and LunarCROSS can find water.  If not NASA will have to work out other sites on the moon that may contain water.\r\n\r\n[quote]It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon[/quote]\r\n\r\nVirgin are already working on 'space tourism' for the everyday human.\r\n\r\n[quote]due to its ability to be terraformed[/quote]\r\n\r\nMars?  Very unlikely.  There was an asteroid that was found in Antartica (I believe it was called AH84001), which had dead single cell organisms on it, there is nearly no water, and it takes almost two years to reach there making food supplies sparse.  \r\n\r\n[quote]Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhat a ridiculous idea: the surface is made up of volcanoes, the clouds are made of battery acid, the planet is over 400 degrees Celsius.  All the previous probes to Venus failed horribly:\r\n\r\nVenera 3: Crushed\r\nVenera 7: Lasted 23 minutes\r\nVenera 13: Lasted 2 hours\r\n\r\nAll built and sent by the USSR, attempting for successful landing failed [i]horribly[/i], NASA have not even attempted to land there with probes.  How you expect natural terraforming is insane.  Look at Venus's climate as intense global warming: Venus is quite literally beyond repair, and unless we get very good heat protection there is no way we will successfully land, let alone terraform.  \r\n\r\nI am not expert, but that is what I believe.  Some of this may not be entirely true, I am dragging this from memory, so I do not want too much flame.  :(\r\n\r\nAnyway, now for the questions:\r\n\r\n*Effect on humans, as a species?\r\n\r\nQuite hard to foresee exactly what would happen.  Unless terraforming does work in the near future it will be near impossible.   If it does work then I believe the planets will be divided into countries, but only 1st world countries: the only people that [i]can[/i] get there.  There will be many issues over whom will own the various countries that are split by their borders, but I certainly do not think they will put the entire planet under dictatorship or a selected government.  As a race this will be an outstanding breakthrough and besides the wars that may be created will help our expansion and dominance.  \r\nAs a person leaving this planet would be great.  The Ancient Greeks dreamed of having swans fly them to the moon, and in the 1500s people would look to the stars and planets and wonder what it was like: finally we could see what our ancestors had always awed and watched; observed with great amazement.  \r\n\r\n*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?\r\n\r\nI think we could get to Mars: we'll definitely get to the moon.  Technology is ever evolving and soon humans might look back on these days and see us as utter [i]idiots[/i]!  :D\r\nAfter all, the human race should live for a few million years more.  I think we will expand to the edge of our Solar System, but after that there is the Oort Cloud and the abyss of dark, lifeless space.  The nearest star will be Alpha Centauri which are about to cataclysmically smash into one another, and any planets further than that are invisible at the moment.  \r\n\r\n[quote]Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?[/quote]\r\n\r\nOnce many planets get colonized I think there will start being tyrannies for the planets.  If we stay within the same solar system, then I do not think the humans will disassociate themselves, however if we do make it past the Oort cloud and into distant solar systems: yes it is very probable, especially with genetic mutation in development.  \r\n\r\n---\r\n\r\nI am no great expert on this subject, but that's what I believe.  Space colonization is a good idea, but I think NASA are planning to go to Europa (one of the Galilean Moons), since fly-by missions have suggested there is the existence of water beneath the surface.\r\nAt the moment I have no theories about how we'll get into space colonization, because I cannot guess if the vital technologies required to get successful space colonization will be around, nor do I have enough expertise on this field of science.

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