Forums → WEPR → Planetary Expansion of the Human Race

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Red42321

11 posts

Nomad

Posted October 5, '09 1:26am UTC

What I'd like to discuss in this thread is theories related to how the human race will advance, in regards to planetary expansion. This is important, because eventually, Earth will no longer be able to sustain human life. Whether it be caused by man, or natural events, Earth won't last forever. If the human race wants to survive, we must expand sooner or later.

I believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon. Currently, NASA is planning to create a Lunar Outpost, sometime between the years of 2019 and 2024. If this goes as planned, the colonization of the Moon will take a great leap forward. It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon, and even longer until the colonies are able to sustain themselves; but the base of all future operations will have been established. Additionally, the colonization of the Moon will set the system by which nations claim land on all planets.

Will humans work together as one unit to colonize the solar system, and eventually the universe; or will future planets work the same as Earth, fighting amongst itself; leading to disestablishment eventually. If the latter is chosen, and nations are established, will they stay in collaboration with the government of other planets, or will there be no alliance between the human race?

I apologize for getting a bit astray from my topic of Moon colonization, but it's all very interesting stuff.

The next step, after successfully establishing a stable, time weathered Lunar government, is to colonize another planet. Most likely Mars. Of course, Mars is more likely to allow humans to live a life comparable to what their Earth dwelling ancestors live; due to its ability to be terraformed, while we are unsure whether or not the Moon could be terraformed.

Here is an artists interpretation of what a terraformed Moon may look like.

And here is the possible terraformation (word?) process of Mars.

Note the resemblance to Earth that the terraformed Mars has.

Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus, which would be a much more difficult challenge than either the Moon or Mars.

I'm not going to get into the details of the process (as it's quite complicated), but if you would like to learn more about it the information is online. I will show you pictures however, showing the change that would need to be made. Something to note, is that due to global warming, Venus is the warmest planet in our solar system. Could that be the fate of Earth, after abandoned? Only to be once again terraformed and restored by another species, or the descendants of the long forgotten inhabitants of Earth?

Current state of Venus

Artists rendition of a terraformed Venus

Please keep in mind, that this entire thread is based purely on theories, some person, and that in no event should my outline be thought of as the end all, be all, of human expansion. It's simply what I believe may or may not happen, depending on events of the next few decades, and century.

I know this is a very long OP, so I won't go into detail about other discussion points, but I would like to point them out.

*Effect on humans, as a species? How would living on these planets affect the evolutionary path of humans?
*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?
*Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?

Your views on the entire matter?

What I'd like to discuss in this thread is theories related to how the human race will advance, in regards to planetary expansion. This is important, because eventually, Earth will no longer be able to sustain human life. Whether it be caused by man, or natural events, Earth won't last forever. If the human race wants to survive, we must expand sooner or later.\r\n\r\nI believe the first step is the colonization of the Moon. Currently, NASA is planning to create a Lunar Outpost, sometime between the years of 2019 and 2024. If this goes as planned, the colonization of the Moon will take a great leap forward. It may still be decades after the event that normal, everyday citizens, are able to live on the moon, and even longer until the colonies are able to sustain themselves; but the base of all future operations will have been established. Additionally, the colonization of the Moon will set the system by which nations claim land on all planets.\r\n\r\nWill humans work together as one unit to colonize the solar system, and eventually the universe; or will future planets work the same as Earth, fighting amongst itself; leading to disestablishment eventually. If the latter is chosen, and nations are established, will they stay in collaboration with the government of other planets, or will there be no alliance between the human race?\r\n\r\nI apologize for getting a bit astray from my topic of Moon colonization, but it's all very interesting stuff.\r\n\r\nThe next step, after successfully establishing a stable, time weathered Lunar government, is to colonize another planet. Most likely Mars. Of course, Mars is more likely to allow humans to live a life comparable to what their Earth dwelling ancestors live; due to its ability to be terraformed, while we are unsure whether or not the Moon could be terraformed. \r\n\r\nHere is an artists interpretation of what a terraformed Moon may look like.\r\n\r\n[img]http://www.cosmosfrontier.com/files/TerraformedMoonFromEarth2.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nAnd here is the possible terraformation (word?) process of Mars. \r\n\r\n[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7f/MarsTransitionV.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nNote the resemblance to Earth that the terraformed Mars has. \r\n\r\nScientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus, which would be a much more difficult challenge than either the Moon or Mars. \r\n\r\nI'm not going to get into the details of the process (as it's quite complicated), but if you would like to learn more about it the information is online. I will show you pictures however, showing the change that would need to be made. Something to note, is that due to global warming, Venus is the warmest planet in our solar system. Could that be the fate of Earth, after abandoned? Only to be once again terraformed and restored by another species, or the descendants of the long forgotten inhabitants of Earth?\r\n\r\nCurrent state of Venus\r\n[img]http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2007/11/29/venus_narrowweb__300x336,0.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nArtists rendition of a terraformed Venus\r\n[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/TerraformedVenus.jpg/200px-TerraformedVenus.jpg[/img]\r\n\r\nPlease keep in mind, that this entire thread is based purely on theories, some person, and that in no event should my outline be thought of as the end all, be all, of human expansion. It's simply what I believe may or may not happen, depending on events of the next few decades, and century.\r\n\r\nI know this is a very long OP, so I won't go into detail about other discussion points, but I would like to point them out.\r\n\r\n*Effect on humans, as a species? How would living on these planets affect the evolutionary path of humans?\r\n*Will humans be able to achieve planetary expansion at all? If so, how far do you believe we will get?\r\n*Will an alliance be made between all planets? How likely is it that the human race grows apart and eventually disassociates with the others as evolution and time goes on?\r\n\r\nYour views on the entire matter?

109 Replies

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ComradeWolf

358 posts

Nomad

Posted October 6, '09 11:22pm UTC

Personally, Before we do any of this, we have to get our own race settled, Not politically, but Scientifically. We keep competing with each other, when really, if we all pooled our resources together, perhaps we can achieve more, and perhaps colonize faster.

Personally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own? I personally couldnt leave Earth. I'd rather die then see it wither and see a bunch of cowarding people trying to escape to some refuge on Mars.

There is evidence though of planets already suitable to us, considering they have a climate that could be habitable, which already has life on it. A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)

Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.

But many people say Earth is our cradle. And eventually we cant be babies anymore, with our mother earth.
But even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?

Personally, Before we do any of this, we have to get our own race settled, Not politically, but Scientifically. We keep competing with each other, when really, if we all pooled our resources together, perhaps we can achieve more, and perhaps colonize faster.\r\n\r\nPersonally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own? I personally couldnt leave Earth. I'd rather die then see it wither and see a bunch of cowarding people trying to escape to some refuge on Mars.\r\n\r\nThere is evidence though of planets already suitable to us, considering they have a climate that could be habitable, which already has life on it. A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)\r\n\r\nPlus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.\r\n\r\nBut many people say Earth is our cradle. And eventually we cant be babies anymore, with our mother earth.\r\nBut even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?

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Blu3sBr0s

1,287 posts

Nomad

Posted October 6, '09 11:54pm UTC

Personally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own?

Yes.

few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)

You can't prove it has sea creatures =P

It probably does have life, just like Europa. But let's not make it sound like there is complex life when we have no idea.

Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.

Once again, they suggest. In actuality they have no idea =P

But even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?

There's something wrong with it? I'm not aware. You seem to have the notion man will be fleeing rather than marching forward...

Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus

How about NO! xD

[quote]Personally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own?[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes.\r\n\r\n[quote] few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou can't prove it has sea creatures =P\r\n\r\nIt probably does have life, just like Europa.  But let's not make it sound like there is complex life when we have no idea.\r\n\r\n[quote]Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.[/quote]\r\n\r\nOnce again, they suggest.  In actuality they have no idea =P\r\n\r\n[quote]But even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nThere's something wrong with it? I'm not aware.  You seem to have the notion man will be fleeing rather than marching forward...\r\n\r\n[quote]Scientists have also considered the possibility of terraforming Venus[/quote]\r\n\r\nHow about NO! xD

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napolian654321

922 posts

Nomad

Posted October 7, '09 12:03am UTC

I wonder how crowded it would be on the moon if the entire population of Earth was there

The moon is about the size of the United States, it would be verrrrry crowded if we had 6 billion or so people living on the moon.

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Green12324

4,097 posts

Peasant

Posted October 7, '09 2:12am UTC

Personally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own? I personally couldnt leave Earth. I'd rather die then see it wither and see a bunch of cowarding people trying to escape to some refuge on Mars.

I don't see why we wouldn't have the right to leave. The better question is, do we have the right to stay? All we're doing right now is creating pollution, and without us the planet would go back to how it was before the problem's we've caused, and most likely sustain life for much longer. Also, if the Moon or anywhere else was colonized, the entire population wouldn't be transported there. They would most likely set up small colonies, and then those colonies would get larger and larger, until they are able to live there as easily as life on Earth is. We would have two successful planets full of humans.

There is evidence though of planets already suitable to us, considering they have a climate that could be habitable, which already has life on it. A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)

First of all, a planet entirely covered by H2O isn't suitable for us. We need land to live on. The water may not even be safe to drink, if it's polluted with toxins, or even excessive amounts of salt like the oceans of Earth. Secondly, I think that it would be a big deal of a planet was confirmed to be sustaining life. I've never heard a single thing about it, and Google didn't come up with anything either.

Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.

Once again, if life had been found, we'd all have heard about it. So far, whether or not life exists outside of Earth is still a mystery.

But even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?

Human life on Earth will most likely go on for a very long time, as long as no catastrophes happen.

How about NO! xD

Definitely unlikely, but interesting to think about. Could humanity possibly figure out how to make a planet so violent as Venus habitable? It would be a great achievement.

I just read an article saying that NASA plans to bomb the Moon, in search of water. Interesting tactic.

[quote]Personally though, do you think we have the right to even leave our planet? Let alone let it to die off on its own? I personally couldnt leave Earth. I'd rather die then see it wither and see a bunch of cowarding people trying to escape to some refuge on Mars.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI don't see why we wouldn't have the right to leave. The better question is, do we have the right to stay? All we're doing right now is creating pollution, and without us the planet would go back to how it was before the problem's we've caused, and most likely sustain life for much longer. Also, if the Moon or anywhere else was colonized, the entire population wouldn't be transported there. They would most likely set up small colonies, and then those colonies would get larger and larger, until they are able to live there as easily as life on Earth is. We would have two successful planets full of humans.\r\n\r\n[quote]There is evidence though of planets already suitable to us, considering they have a climate that could be habitable, which already has life on it. A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water, which has numerous sea creatures.( Earlier probes and scopes spotted it.)[/quote]\r\n\r\nFirst of all, a planet entirely covered by H2O isn't suitable for us. We need land to live on. The water may not even be safe to drink, if it's polluted with toxins, or even excessive amounts of salt like the oceans of Earth. Secondly, I think that it would be a big deal of a planet was confirmed to be sustaining life. I've never heard a single thing about it, and Google didn't come up with anything either.\r\n\r\n[quote]Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life. I may be wrong in my evidence, but there has been reports and legit photo's and probe data pointing out it has lifeforms bigger then microbes, and some evidence even suggest larger then whales.[/quote]\r\n\r\nOnce again, if life had been found, we'd all have heard about it. So far, whether or not life exists outside of Earth is still a mystery. \r\n\r\n[quote]But even so... can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nHuman life on Earth will most likely go on for a very long time, as long as no catastrophes happen.\r\n\r\n[quote]How about NO! xD[/quote]\r\n\r\nDefinitely unlikely, but interesting to think about. Could humanity possibly figure out how to make a planet so violent as Venus habitable? It would be a great achievement. \r\n\r\nI just read an article saying that NASA plans to bomb the Moon, in search of water. [url=http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffingtonpost.com%2F2009%2F10%2F06%2Fnasa-lcross-mission-to-bo_n_311038.html&ei=-fjLSra9IsizlAfZjJDLBQ&usg=AFQjCNHRE__wzv5rS5WdeeqtfsU3X63XDQ&sig2=WN2b-E8sn1BCiL0c9N-F1Q]Interesting tactic.[/url]

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deserteagle

1,633 posts

Nomad

Posted October 7, '09 2:41am UTC

Alpha Centari is like what 10 light years away? We frankly don't have that kind of technology available to us. Yet. We might have it; we might not. We can't predict what technologies will be invented, so for all intents and purposes, that is not an option.

Mars could be feasible. But what will protect us from solar wind and cosmic radiation? Venus is too freaking hot with too much volcanic activity. Not too mention a highly toxic atmosphere.
I heard that one of those moons of Jupiter have some water on them, forgot the name...

For the morality of traveling to a different planet; I don't see why it is immoral.

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Elitemagical

1,207 posts

Nomad

Posted October 7, '09 6:48pm UTC

Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life.

Sadly the trio are actually caught in their own gravity and are heading to their cataclysmic demise. The planets may be habitable, but they will not be for very long.

A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water

Like Green12324 pointed out a planet entirely covered in liquid water is not habitable as we are not amphibious. Another point is Gleissing 86 is past the Oort Cloud I believe . . . Any planet with the possibility of holding human existence is past the Oort Cloud, even once we've developed terraforming, carrying everything required to place land down, change the atmosphere etc., within the lifetime of the human is going to be hard.

However, recently biologists injected a gene (cannot quite remember) and it increased the worm's life span by something like a 10th maybe less. Currently we are working on something that can be used on humans to lengthen life span.

can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?

The only problems to Earth are ourselves: human beings. Once we leave: take away our global warming, weapons, political feuds etc. it will heal by itself. By the time the real damage is done, it will be too late, and also 4 billion years later. If the human race survives 4 billion years I think we will be the most successful race in the Universe(s).

It probably does have life, just like Europa.

At the moment we have no idea whether or not Europa has life. However, we believe it has a liquid water ocean beneath the crust. NASA are currently working to get a probe to check for the existence of water.

I just read an article saying that NASA plans to bomb the Moon

Well more like kamikaze the moon: the Centaur Upper Stage will smash into the moon after separating from the LunarCROSS. When it crashes a plume of dust and smoke will shoot up and the satellite will scan that for the electromagnetic response signaling water. I laughed when I read the plan on NASA's website a few weeks back.

Alpha Centari is like what 10 light years away?

True, true. But like I said earlier, even if we do get the technology, Alpha Centauri are about to smash into eachother and blow up:

Bye, bye solar system.

Mars could be feasible. But what will protect us from solar wind and cosmic radiation?

Mars has a small magnetosphere, depending on the size of the Solar Wind we should be safe from solar winds and cosmic radiation. However if there's a large CME then Mars will probably not save humans. This is why scientists are working on terraformation.

I heard that one of those moons of Jupiter have some water on them, forgot the name...

Europa. We do not know quite yet if it does have water. Also it is a bit smaller than the Earth's moon, so it cannot allow the whole population to live there.

[quote]Plus in the Alpha Centauri Tri star system, which is the closest solar system to ours, has evidence of habitable planets, which already hosts it's own life.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSadly the trio are actually caught in their own gravity and are heading to their cataclysmic demise.  The planets may be habitable, but they will not be for very long.  \r\n\r\n[quote]A few examples are Gleissing 86, which is a planet entirely covered by H20 Liquid water[/quote]\r\n\r\nLike Green12324 pointed out a planet entirely covered in liquid water is not habitable as we are not amphibious.  Another point is Gleissing 86 is past the Oort Cloud I believe . . .  Any planet with the possibility of holding human existence is past the Oort Cloud, even once we've developed terraforming, carrying everything required to place land down, change the atmosphere etc., within the lifetime of the human is going to be hard.\r\n\r\nHowever, recently biologists injected a gene (cannot quite remember) and it increased the worm's life span by something like a 10th maybe less.  Currently we are working on something that can be used on humans to lengthen life span.  \r\n\r\n[quote]can we really leave our planet to be forsaken? canb we not at least try to help it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe only problems to Earth are ourselves: human beings.  Once we leave: take away our global warming, weapons, political feuds etc. it will heal by itself.  By the time the [i]real[/i] damage is done, it will be too late, and also 4 billion years later.  If the human race survives 4 billion years I think we will be the most successful race in the Universe(s).\r\n\r\n[quote]It probably does have life, just like Europa.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAt the moment we have no idea whether or not Europa has life.  However, we believe it has a liquid water ocean beneath the crust.  NASA are currently working to get a probe to check for the existence of water.\r\n\r\n[quote]I just read an article saying that NASA plans to bomb the Moon[/quote]\r\n\r\nWell more like kamikaze the moon: the Centaur Upper Stage will smash into the moon after separating from the LunarCROSS.  When it crashes a plume of dust and smoke will shoot up and the satellite will scan that for the electromagnetic response signaling water.  I laughed when I read the plan on NASA's website a few weeks back.\r\n\r\n[quote]Alpha Centari is like what 10 light years away?[/quote]\r\n\r\nTrue, true.  But like I said earlier, even if we do get the technology, Alpha Centauri are about to smash into eachother and blow up:\r\n\r\n[i]Bye, bye solar system.[/i]\r\n\r\n[i]Mars could be feasible. But what will protect us from solar wind and cosmic radiation?[/i]\r\n\r\nMars has a small magnetosphere, depending on the size of the Solar Wind we should be safe from solar winds and cosmic radiation.  However if there's a large CME then Mars will probably not save humans.  This is why scientists are working on terraformation.  \r\n\r\n[quote]I heard that one of those moons of Jupiter have some water on them, forgot the name...  [/quote]\r\n\r\nEuropa.  :)  We do not know quite yet if it does have water.  Also it is a bit smaller than the Earth's moon, so it cannot allow the whole population to live there.

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Blu3sBr0s

1,287 posts

Nomad

Posted October 7, '09 10:10pm UTC

We do not know quite yet if it does have water.

We know it has ice =)

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AnaLoGMunKy

1,573 posts

Blacksmith

Posted October 8, '09 12:08am UTC

I dont see anything substantial happening whilst any of us are alive. Unless our tech takes a serious leap for one reason or another. But I doubt it. Shame

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balerion07

2,837 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '09 12:23am UTC

The only problems to Earth are ourselves: human beings. Once we leave: take away our global warming, weapons, political feuds etc. it will heal by itself. By the time the real damage is done, it will be too late, and also 4 billion years later. If the human race survives 4 billion years I think we will be the most successful race in the Universe(s).

Volcanoes output more CO2 than humans could ever hope to. Global warming and cooling is cyclic and thats not going to change. Also plants grow a lot better with higher CO2 levels.

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Blu3sBr0s

1,287 posts

Nomad

Posted October 8, '09 12:31am UTC

Volcanoes output more CO2 than humans could ever hope to. Global warming and cooling is cyclic and thats not going to change. Also plants grow a lot better with higher CO2 levels.

^ WIN

I love the plant fact. It always stumps those "OMG Greenhouse Gases" people =P

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valkyrie1119

1,720 posts

Nomad

Posted October 8, '09 3:10am UTC

If we could start inhabiting other planets and take to the stars, then we would have no more problems in terms of Global Warming. The idea fascinates me, along with the idea of an incurable virus destroying the world (love Pandemic.)

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tomertheking

1,751 posts

Jester

Posted October 8, '09 5:14am UTC

Soil that a plant can live on outside of water is made of sand, water... and dead plants. Problem there.

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Elitemagical

1,207 posts

Nomad

Posted October 8, '09 7:46am UTC

We know it has ice =)

Well what I meant was we do not know if there is liquid water already there. >.< Pedantic. :P

Volcanoes output more CO2 than humans could ever hope to. Global warming and cooling is cyclic and thats not going to change. Also plants grow a lot better with higher CO2 levels.

That is true. :/ The difference is human inventions letting out CO2 is a constant affect.

I know plants grow better with CO2, we're not plants are we? >.>

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balerion07

2,837 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '09 7:56am UTC

Humans and animals ouput CO2 as well. Hmm maybe we should do something to lower those levels as well.

Global warming is a joke. A book was written backed up with data that showed how data from over 40 years ago showed global cooling. After the book cited such sources this data was removed so that only that which pointed to global warming remained. Coal is going to be around for a good long while and I couldn't care less about the nuts who freak out about emissions. Its not like we are still producing cloralnfloral carbons now is it?

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balerion07

2,837 posts

Peasant

Posted October 8, '09 8:00am UTC

*cloral floral carbons

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