Before you comment on this, keep in mind that: 1. Prepare to read a loooong wall of text. No summaries are availible, and I would consider this post worth reading. 2. Please put some thought into your posts. No one-line responses. 3. In this topic I will not be using facts, but instead philosophy. I'm giving science and statistics a break, for now.
Lately, Ive been seeing a lot of arguments that go like this: Christian: God exists Atheist: Oh yeah? Creationism is the stupidist idea I've heard of. Christian: I believe god made the Big Bang. Atheist: The Big Bang had no cause. YouTube says so. Christian: But I know a story where someone was protected by God! Search it on google! *cue flamewar*
Those kinds of topics usually go on and on, but to no avail. Both sides never give up, and keep arguing. Has anyone actually switched religions after reading those topics? Since I've decided it's useless debating over Gods existence, in this topic I will try to shed light on Christianity from an atheists point of view.
First off, I would like to point out some misconceptions about Christians. We do not all believe in creationism. I agree that creationism is flawed. But you athists take the Bible too literally. The first part of Genesis is basically trying to say that God created everything. Also, not all Christians believe you have to be Christian to go to heaven. I do not, I believe it all depends on having good morals. However, it is harder for atheists to go to heaven because they have no one to ask for forgiveness. Along with that, keep in mind that not every Christian is like GodsHolyKnight. He was more like your typical 15th century Christian, taking every passage in the bible literally.
But is Christianity really that bad? Yes, it has started many a war, but every religion occaisionally goes awry. And while it is easy to find the death toll of a war, it is hard to find how many lives something has saved. Religions have spurred the inspiration behind civilizations, which not only kept people together, but lead to progress and inventions. After all, the Rennesaince (sorry for the bad spelling) was caused in part by a boost in Christian faith. In comparison, wars have only been a small setback. And even if Christianity has had a rough history, keep in mind that 99% of Christians did not support Adolf Hitler or control troops in the Crusades or chop the heads of non-believers, keep in mind that some of the least talked about Christians had the best morals and had a good heart. And those who tried to convert may have killed, but they converted people from more barbaric and less moral-based beliefs. The philosophy and lessons of Jesus are good, and that's what really matters. Admit it, some of your morals are derived from the Bible.
And why do I believe in God, with science stacked up against me? Truth be told, I admit science is on your side. And the universe is made up of science, so in theory God doesn't exist, right? Wrong. God created the universe, thus He is outside of it. So, universal laws do not apply to Him (He is, after all, GOD). And while there is no proof of God, I am somehow still sure He exists. I respect the fact that you are atheist (if you are), but I think you focus too much on science.
Finally, I have seen that most atheists think religious people are gullible. While most people do not think their religion over enough, I have of late. After reading all of the arguments in this forum, I have dug deeper for reasons to believe, and come out an even stronger Catholic. Ironically, some of my worst enimies on this site have helped me the most. However, I have gotten more tense in my arguments, which is why I will be taking a break from this forum.
In conclusion, most of you are too focused on science, and need to learn how Christianity is good, whether you are Christian or not.
Discuss your opinon on my post and Christianity in general.Â
If we are created in his image, then why do we not all have white hair?
I've always seen God as really old, as he is immortal, and don't lots of really old people have white/gray hair?
why does it have to have a beginning? I personally think that the universe/mulitverse is timeless. It is a endless cycle of infinity of Big Bangs and Big Crunches.
But where did the first matter for the first Big Bang/Big Crunch come from?
Morality wasn't around before the bible? Scores of civilizations with no access to the bible developed in their own way & still managed to figure out that murder, stealing, and a ton of other crimes were bad things.
So it seems to me like your saying it's human nature to see that those things are bad, and that those people got those morals without the Bible or any outside force. Couldn't God have programmed these things into us when he created us? I think so.
First off, I would like to point out some misconceptions about Christians. We do not all believe in creationism. I
One of the first things you learn as a Christian is that God created everything. If you reject that idea, technically, your not a Christian.
While most people do not think their religion over enough, I have of late.
If you've only JUST started questioning your religion and trying to improve your beliefs and stuff, that's pretty bad. While faith is a good thing to have, I feel that just accepting without questioning whatever your parents taught you is just downright stupid.
God could still have created everything without having done so in 7 days.
Some even find it that seven days are a much longer time (we are still in the seventh day), just like the Mayan calenders that lasted an era. Which also makes sense, since God is currently resting, and not going to interfere with humans. *shrug*
If prove it reply Atheist: Your making the claim it's up to you to provide the evidence. Theist: God exists
No.
Atheist: Your making the claim it's up to you to provide the evidence Theist: Fine, YOU prove it. Atheist: Either ignores or verbally abuses. Moegreche: *big words* Nurvana: Moe, I am pretty sure that the Catholic reformation changed its views on atheism. I have been taught that if you lead a good life, it means not whether you have been a theist or not.
I don't think religion has much to say about chemistry. But before Newton came along, people thought that a ball would stop rolling if you pushed it because God actually intervened and stopped it. Newtonian physics explained the force of friction, and the theistic idea was rejected. People thought that God could spontaneously create certain animals like mice and maggots. We now know this is false, thanks again to science. There are so many examples in history of theistic explanations being tossed in favor of scientific ones. My point still stands: when science and religion butt heads, historically religion loses.
Yeah we believed that, like, back when we were cavemen. If religion loses, why are there billions of religious in the world? There is no conclusive evidence of religion being "tossed" just because primitive misinterpretations of the Bible were corrected.
I've always seen God as really old, as he is immortal, and don't lots of really old people have white/gray hair?
Well if he is immortal, then he wasn't young at one point. He is apparently the way he has always been.
Couldn't God have programmed these things into us when he created us? I think so.
No, that's DNA you're thinking of.
If religion loses, why are there billions of religious in the world?
That's because scientists only present their information to someone who shows common interest in it. Over time(say, thousands of years) Religious peoples have pretty much beaten their beliefs into others. The Christians "roved" their points through attrition, while scientists proved it through evidence, hypotheses, theories, etc.
For every Big Bang in the multiverse, there is an equal opposite Big Crunch.
The Big Crunch is probably the best explanation for a godless start/end to the Universe. Because time is relative to space, it'll reverse during the Big Crunch and go back to being contained in the singularity where once again time will not affect anything and the Universe wouldn't need a cause, etc. etc.
God could still have created everything without having done so in 7 days. [quote]
I never mentioned how long it took him to do it. Several times in the Bible it sometimes substitutes days for years and vice verse. But if you just reject the idea of God creating the universe, your rejecting one of the cores of Christianity, thus making the person a non-Christian.
[quote] Well if he is immortal, then he wasn't young at one point. He is apparently the way he has always been.
If man was created in his image though, would man not be born with white hair?
Nobody has really seen God. For all we know, he wasn't immortal at one point and he gained the secrets/power over everything, including immorality, so he stopped aging. So if that's the case, then God at one point was young, without white hair, and if humans are created in his image, then they should follow the process God did (AKA colored hair -> white hair).
That's because scientists only present their information to someone who shows common interest in it. Over time(say, thousands of years) Religious peoples have pretty much beaten their beliefs into others. The Christians "roved" their points through attrition, while scientists proved it through evidence, hypotheses, theories, etc.
That's not really answering the question. First of all, he asked why their are billions of religions in the world, and if what you said was true, then shouldn't there only be a few if they really are just harassing everybody into accepting their beliefs? Secondly, you can't prove anything through theories and hypotheses, as they are just speculations. I could hypothesize that the moon is made of cheese, yet that wouldn't prove it. Also, scientists used attributive methods, AKA the Scientific Revolution. Scientists went around publishing books about their theories and discoveries forcing them on people. Even after they were told to stop, they didn't listen and just continued on.
Has no one posted anything about how God was created if he does or did exist?
Here's a theory:
God may exist, but only science could have created him. As Kirby998 said, something can not cause itself.
I believe that everything just happened. There maybe was a rip in the time/space continuem or something similar and two objects hit each other, making molecules. Luckily for us, those molecules arranged into a large ball of gas. After billions of years, it exploded, forming a supernova, which did not become a black hole, but more pockets of various gases. Some of those gases rearranged and became giant solids. Those solids eventually began to collide. They became smaller and turned into planets with orbits. They orbited these balls of gas which we now call "stars". Eventually, the gases made H2O or water. That probably happened in more than one place in the universe, so there is life on more than one planet in the universe.
One day, we will know the answer to all of this.
If you want to know the answer, that is your choice. You never know what you may find.
Does it matter what made the Earth and what, or who, made life on it?
You should be happy to be alive and live your life to the fullest, do not waste your time trying to figure out why you exist.
I wasn't talking about morals. Well, directly anyway. I meant psychological patterns of humans are in DNA. This psychology may lead to phenomenon such as perceiving morals. That is what I meant.
Has no one posted anything about how God was created if he does or did exist?
Here's a theory:
God may exist, but only science could have created him. As Kirby998 said, something can not cause itself.
I believe that everything just happened. There maybe was a rip in the time/space continuem or something similar and two objects hit each other, making molecules. Luckily for us, those molecules arranged into a large ball of gas. After billions of years, it exploded, forming a supernova, which did not become a black hole, but more pockets of various gases. Some of those gases rearranged and became giant solids. Those solids eventually began to collide. They became smaller and turned into planets with orbits. They orbited these balls of gas which we now call "stars". Eventually, the gases made H2O or water. That probably happened in more than one place in the universe, so there is life on more than one planet in the universe.
One day, we will know the answer to all of this.
If you want to know the answer, that is your choice. You never know what you may find.
Does it matter what made the Earth and what, or who, made life on it?
You should be happy to be alive and live your life to the fullest, do not waste your time trying to figure out why you exist.
I believe that everything just happened. There maybe was a rip in the time/space continuem or something similar and two objects hit each other, making molecules.
And what were these objects that hit each other made of? Most likely atoms. These atoms couldn't have just appeared out of nowhere. While before I did say God was immortal and thus very old, I was only using that to convey the generic view of God and to show how we could've been made in His image. Too me he is more like a sentient being of pure energy. Since energy is directly proportional to mass, I think that God could've slowed part of himself down to the point where he is mass (E=MC^2), thus creating the first matter.
Does it matter what made the Earth and what, or who, made life on it?
You should be happy to be alive and live your life to the fullest, do not waste your time trying to figure out why you exist.
But if you don't know why you were created, what's the point in living? Everything needs a purpose, otherwise it's just a waste of space. So it IS important to figure out why you exist.
...And wow. I really failed up the quoting on my last post. >.>
I never mentioned how long it took him to do it. Several times in the Bible it sometimes substitutes days for years and vice verse. But if you just reject the idea of God creating the universe, your rejecting one of the cores of Christianity, thus making the person a non-Christian.
I'm guessing you have no idea what creationism is. Creationism is the idea that God created the Universe in 7 days, which is explained in Genesis. If you don't believe in creationism, is doesn't mean you don't believe that God made the Universe, but that you don't believe that God made the Universe in 7 days.
Creationism is the idea that God created the Universe in 7 days, which is explained in Genesis.
Let me refer you to the part to this part of my post: "Several times in the Bible it sometimes substitutes days for years and vice verse." This means that it doesn't necessarily HAVE to be 7 seven days. It could've been 7 years, 7 months, even 7 millenia. And, by definition, creationism is simply the belief that God created everything.
And while there is no proof of God, I am somehow still sure He exists.
If you have no proof, why is there a reason for anyone to accept your claim. Sure, he could exist, but so could anything else. The Flying spaghetti monster, dancing marshmallow, etc. But without providing evidence, why should we believe in it. Your "wall of text" didn't shed light on Christianity, it just stated once again that religion, is a matter of Faith. Faith is believing without evidence.
