Before you comment on this, keep in mind that: 1. Prepare to read a loooong wall of text. No summaries are availible, and I would consider this post worth reading. 2. Please put some thought into your posts. No one-line responses. 3. In this topic I will not be using facts, but instead philosophy. I'm giving science and statistics a break, for now.
Lately, Ive been seeing a lot of arguments that go like this: Christian: God exists Atheist: Oh yeah? Creationism is the stupidist idea I've heard of. Christian: I believe god made the Big Bang. Atheist: The Big Bang had no cause. YouTube says so. Christian: But I know a story where someone was protected by God! Search it on google! *cue flamewar*
Those kinds of topics usually go on and on, but to no avail. Both sides never give up, and keep arguing. Has anyone actually switched religions after reading those topics? Since I've decided it's useless debating over Gods existence, in this topic I will try to shed light on Christianity from an atheists point of view.
First off, I would like to point out some misconceptions about Christians. We do not all believe in creationism. I agree that creationism is flawed. But you athists take the Bible too literally. The first part of Genesis is basically trying to say that God created everything. Also, not all Christians believe you have to be Christian to go to heaven. I do not, I believe it all depends on having good morals. However, it is harder for atheists to go to heaven because they have no one to ask for forgiveness. Along with that, keep in mind that not every Christian is like GodsHolyKnight. He was more like your typical 15th century Christian, taking every passage in the bible literally.
But is Christianity really that bad? Yes, it has started many a war, but every religion occaisionally goes awry. And while it is easy to find the death toll of a war, it is hard to find how many lives something has saved. Religions have spurred the inspiration behind civilizations, which not only kept people together, but lead to progress and inventions. After all, the Rennesaince (sorry for the bad spelling) was caused in part by a boost in Christian faith. In comparison, wars have only been a small setback. And even if Christianity has had a rough history, keep in mind that 99% of Christians did not support Adolf Hitler or control troops in the Crusades or chop the heads of non-believers, keep in mind that some of the least talked about Christians had the best morals and had a good heart. And those who tried to convert may have killed, but they converted people from more barbaric and less moral-based beliefs. The philosophy and lessons of Jesus are good, and that's what really matters. Admit it, some of your morals are derived from the Bible.
And why do I believe in God, with science stacked up against me? Truth be told, I admit science is on your side. And the universe is made up of science, so in theory God doesn't exist, right? Wrong. God created the universe, thus He is outside of it. So, universal laws do not apply to Him (He is, after all, GOD). And while there is no proof of God, I am somehow still sure He exists. I respect the fact that you are atheist (if you are), but I think you focus too much on science.
Finally, I have seen that most atheists think religious people are gullible. While most people do not think their religion over enough, I have of late. After reading all of the arguments in this forum, I have dug deeper for reasons to believe, and come out an even stronger Catholic. Ironically, some of my worst enimies on this site have helped me the most. However, I have gotten more tense in my arguments, which is why I will be taking a break from this forum.
In conclusion, most of you are too focused on science, and need to learn how Christianity is good, whether you are Christian or not.
Discuss your opinon on my post and Christianity in general.Â
What do you think the bible is? Someone just randomly said a list of do's and dont's , and thus the bible was born.
I think the Bible is man's interpretation of God's word. However, because it is man's interpretation, it always has the chance to be incorrect, which why I generally don't like to use it as a basis for everything.
I think the Bible is man's interpretation of God's word. However, because it is man's interpretation, it always has the chance to be incorrect, which why I generally don't like to use it as a basis for everything.
Then how would you know which ones are true, which ones are right?
I think the Bible is man's interpretation of God's word. However, because it is man's interpretation, it always has the chance to be incorrect, which why I generally don't like to use it as a basis for everything.
Its pretty dam hard to mess up the writing when God is telling you what to write. I take that the writers didn't copy God's word verbatim. Usually when I take notes in class, I copy what the teacher says word for word. And as I result, I get good notes, which result in good grades.
If only those people had taken good notes of what God was saying....
Science is commonly used to discredit it, saying that everything can be logically explained, all except the why. Science explains to us how things work, how they do what they do, but not why. One could argue that science explains how things work, like when a switch is flipped a light comes on, but not the how, and that is where religion comes in, the light came on becouse someone flipped the switch. Religion gives us the answer to the why
I disagree. Religion doesn't really explain anything. For instance with your example of the light switch. I could say the light came on because I little kid was playing with it. I have no way of telling if this is true or not or even if there was a little kid in the room, it's just something that popped into my head. If we were to treat this as we do religion then I would have faith in this idea that a little kid was playing with the switch, regardless of further evidence suggesting otherwise. With religion this scenario becomes even more fantastic attributing the why to other forces outside the physical. So it is like saying the reason the light came on is because a magic pixie wanted to test her light bulb lighting spell on it.
Now we can use science we can evaluate the situation and determine possible reasons why the light was switched on by asking and researching questions such as, did someone need more light to see because it was dark in the room?, are there signs of a power overload in the electrical system?, etc.
Atheist: Your making the claim it's up to you to provide the evidence Theist: Fine, YOU prove it. Atheist: Either ignores or verbally abuses. Moegreche: *big words* Nurvana: Moe, I am pretty sure that the Catholic reformation changed its views on atheism. I have been taught that if you lead a good life, it means not whether you have been a theist or not.
Wait, why would the theist want to atheist to prove the theists claims?
I believe that everything just happened. There maybe was a rip in the time/space continuem or something similar and two objects hit each other, making molecules.
You need a universe to have time/space.
But if you don't know why you were created, what's the point in living? Everything needs a purpose, otherwise it's just a waste of space. So it IS important to figure out why you exist.
A collective objective purpose would be to reproduce. Individuals can go on to have separate subjective purposes they apply to there own lives. Such as one of my purposes is to be creative.
People in this ages range have -no- idea about anything. Honestly. Beyond waking up, eating, school and other trivial bull they are a blank slate devoid of actual ideas and conceptualized notions. Barren of the fruitful thoughts of Life and how it is lived.
I disagree, we have plenty of 13-18 year olds capable of forming actual ideas and conceptualizing notions. Kirby and alt would be two examples that come to mind right of the bat.
Lolol, evidence in this case is something that backs up a claim or supports it. Proof in this case is something that definitely determines if something is correct or not.
So where did morals come from? If you say your parents, where did the very first morals come from? As a theist, I believe they came from God, but if think of it from an atheists view point, the best I can come up with is that a random person randomly decided what is right and wrong one day.
Morality is a human behavior and therefore stems from the human brain. It is valid to say that the modern-day moral code was almost wholly created by religion or heavily influenced by religion - but the capacity for morality and moral opinion was around since the very first humans.
I disagree, we have plenty of 13-18 year olds capable of forming actual ideas and conceptualizing notions. Kirby and alt would be two examples that come to mind right of the bat.
Me iz 13
And Q, for the record, I got my morals from my own beliefs. They were influenced by religion and my parents, but neither of them *created* my moral code.
Morals are a funny thing. As human intuition stems from the brain, it would seem that morals are naturally and instinctively encoded within us. Maybe morals are a little more scientific then we realize.
It is valid to say that the modern-day moral code was almost wholly created by religion or heavily influenced by religion - but the capacity for morality and moral opinion was around since the very first humans.
This is accurate. A moral code refers to a system of morals created by man, where as morals themselves are purely instinctive. However, it would appear not in some case, seeing as they are twisted and broken through violent actions like murdering and torturing.
I think morals are based on opinion. One person might be torturing another person thinking that this is a form of justice and that it is morally right to torture people, while you or I would disagree and say that it is inhuman and goes against our own form of morals. You can't really say that one is right over the other, because it is all based on opinion. Your morals may be different from mine. That's just how it is.
We've haven't been able to make mass go at the speed of light squared. Also, nuclear reactions work by colliding nuclei. We only use E=mc^2 to determine how much energy can be created, as it seemingly disappears, so it must be transferred into energy.
It is transferred into energy. You were saying that we have no proof that energy is equivalent to mass. But we see it every day in the energy produced by the sun. We don't have to get particles up to the speed of light to prove this. That's not what that equation is saying at all. It just so happens that the energy produced is equal to the mass lost time the square of the speed of light.
how can i be inconsistent without knowing about the actual doctrine, that'd be like asking me to know every single law in America, i can't know every doctrine
If you're not even aware of the basic doctrines of your own religion, then I'd say that being a pretty irresponsible rational thinker.
you will also have to remember that just because they are ideas, doesnt mean that they are correct. it doesnt help when we have self instated intellectuals who perpetuate false ideas now does it. Not what does this remind you of...
People in this ages range have -no- idea about anything. Honestly. Beyond waking up, eating, school and other trivial bull they are a blank slate devoid of actual ideas and conceptualized notions. Barren of the fruitful thoughts of Life and how it is lived. Which is nothing against them, nor is it their fault. That's just how it is. They are coddled and protected and raised by their parents until the first quarter of their life.
And therein lies the problem.
They have nothing to base their own ideas off of. Mum loves Jesus, Pops likes the Right, Mommy thinks taxes are bad, Daddy says the Seahawks rock.
They have not gone out into the world, had to live on their on. Provide for themselves, pay taxes, pay bills, decide what is best for them. Contemplate the existence of some all-knowing being or the lack thereof.
Their grasp and scope and view on the world is limited to their Pee $ Em, the electronic teet they sit in front of and the Internet held within. They hold the views presented to them on a silver platter, found strewn across the cosmos of ones and zeroes which form the high tech intermingled web of information call the Internet.
And even when they form their own views and opinions and scope and breadth of what they "see to be true", religion is not one of those things that can be coherently discussed. It's a vicious honeypot full of half truths and gnashing ideals. Who can prove either way beyond any reasonable doubt? The man who holds the cross to their heart and feels His presence in day-to-day life? The man who praises no idol yet lives life all the same?
The point is that, when given the topic of religion, even the most wizened of men will be reduced to grasping at 'facts' tossed their way. Reduced to mud slinging and name calling and finger pointing. The quagmire never ceases, never recedes, never vanishes yet always grows.
And that is the way it is going to be until the end of time, the end of humanity.
I really hope you actually know that majority =/= everyone and just forgot to type it. Or maybe you just aren't used to young people being capable of higher thinking? My parents have never coddled or protected me. I'm a good deal different from them on both the political and religious spectrum for the most part. And I'd say I would be the exception to prove the rule but I know lots of kids also like me in that regard. It's definitely true for the majority of kids, but not all of them.
i also have ideas, but most people would call me insane.(science is insane IMO. and so is religion, which is why i almost never get in religious vs science arguements.)
i also have ideas, but most people would call me insane.(science is insane IMO. and so is religion, which is why i almost never get in religious vs science arguements.)
You do, you just say stuff like " i tink religion nd science r screwed up" witch isn't much better then your other arguments, not to sound mean, but your kinda annoying.
Still waiting on that proof. But any rate given the earlier parts of this debate...
B. Please ignore angry Christians, their fools.
Try to sometime the nerves get the better of me.
C. I'm a Christian but I know being angry at you is one of the worst things I can do.
Glad to hear, shouldn't need to feel that way. Us godless heathens can be a mostly friendly bunch.
D. On behalf of all Christians I apologize if we have offended or hurt you.
Umm okay...
E. Science and religion can coexist, I would love to expand on this if you would like to hear more but there's a lot to say.
Yes I would like to hear more on your thoughts. Keep in mind I might not agree with you.
F. If you ever feel inspired to talk to a Christian, I would highly recommend going to a priest because he will be the most understanding and the least "YOU NEED TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN NOW", seriously.
Unfortunately this has not been my experience with priests.
G. It's healthy to question religion in general.
Yep I agree there.
H. It would be more logical for the universe to not exist than exist (think about it), proving the truth isn't always the most logical possibility.
As I have said according to what we are finding in quantum physics it actually makes more sense that we have something rather then nothing, since nothing is an unstable state.
I. Although it probably doesn't mean much to you, I'll be praying for you, may your day be blessed.
While I don't think it really accomplishes anything, there is usually a meaning of wishing someone well. So in that regard I do appreciate the sentiment behind it.
you will also have to remember that just because they are ideas, doesnt mean that they are correct. it doesnt help when we have self instated intellectuals who perpetuate false ideas now does it. Not what does this remind you of...
I think the issue on this was that teens were unable to form there own ideas outside of an authoritative figure or media of some sort. Not necessarily if those ideas are right or wrong.
As I said, I am taking a break from this forum. However, I'd just like to say this topic is turning into most Christianity/Atheism threads- Arguing over God's existence via scientific laws, rules of energy, etc. I was trying to start a topic on the basic idea of being religious, the philosophies of religions, and if being religious. is a good thing.
Science is proofed, god was created by drunk people. What happened was Jesus and his friend got drunk and wrote the bible and said "wow some cool righting just appeared" and they didnt know it was all bs so they started selling it to people for lots of $. Thats what I think
