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wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

I would have you consider the following proposal:

Are we truly alive? How do we know if we live if all we know is what is in front of us? Many will claim that we live here and now and that reality is our own unique perception. While this may seem agreeable, it cannot be all that life is, for that would indicate we have no founding, solid view of reality. What does reality, the concept of being alive, and existence really mean?

Thoughts, comments, feelings.

  • 42 Replies
thisisnotanalt
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thisisnotanalt
9,821 posts
Farmer

Are we truly alive? How do we know if we live if all we know is what is in front of us? Many will claim that we live here and now and that reality is our own unique perception. While this may seem agreeable, it cannot be all that life is, for that would indicate we have no founding, solid view of reality. What does reality, the concept of being alive, and existence really mean?


We define ourselves as alive. So yes, we are alive. Reality is what people perceive, yes. It is what our senses divine out of the molecules around us. Existence does not intrinsically have to mean anything.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

Who. Cares. Pragmatism. This knowledge is not practical in any way so why bother tackling this problem? In the end we are limited to this vessel and limited to perceiving everything using the senses we have. If everything I perceive is false why does it matter? It is what I perceive and is as close to reality as I can comprehend.

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

This knowledge is not practical in any way so why bother tackling this problem? In the end we are limited to this vessel and limited to perceiving everything using the senses we have. If everything I perceive is false why does it matter? It is what I perceive and is as close to reality as I can comprehend.


I enjoy philisophical discussion. Besides, the question intrigues people.
delossantosj
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delossantosj
6,672 posts
Nomad

since we dont have anybody who is smarter then us human beings on earth so far. we dont have anybody to define reality to us, so we define it ourselves. take biology 1 and you'll get a deffinition of reallity

WexMajor82
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WexMajor82
1,026 posts
Nomad

I think we are all strapped in the Matrix...

wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

But, who's to say what is real? What if nothing is and reality is something completely different? We could all be some ten year old kid's dream.

Pazx
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Pazx
5,845 posts
Peasant


But, who's to say what is real? What if nothing is and reality is something completely different? We could all be some ten year old kid's dream.


But then what if he pondered the same question?

I wonder if my colour blue looks the same as your colour blue.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

Exactly. And if the kid ponders the same question who is to say he himself is real? Maybe there is nothing real.

Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

If you proved that you weren't real would you cease to exist?

Pointless topic is pointless...and yet I bumped it =P

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Pragmatism. This knowledge is not practical in any way so why bother tackling this problem?


If you're going to take the pragmatist line here, you're going to have to define what you mean by &quotractical" knowledge. William James, a renowned pragmatist, said that was is pragmatic is what is expedient to believe. But this gets us into a infinite regress: is it expedient to believe that it is expedient to believe that x?
The move here is to say that pragmatism isn't so much a theory as it is a light suggestion, so it doesn't have to hold up to the scrutiny it demands. Even with this response, we can press the question as to whether we are really here is a pragmatic question.
It sure seems to be - if we know that we aren't really here, this would certainly affect the way we live our day to day lives (this is a more broad version of pragmatism).
If you're wanting to argue that this question isn't meaningful because it isn't verifiable, well, then you're just a verificationist. And that's become sort of a bad world in contemporary philosophy.

take biology 1 and you'll get a deffinition of reallity


I doubt that completely. Besides, any scientific field will have to presuppose certain conditions - one of which being that we actually exist in the way we seem to exist and that the world is pretty much how it appears to us. But this is exactly the question we're asking. Biology, or any science, cannot answer this question.

I think we are all strapped in the Matrix...


What does a skeptical scenario like this do to our knowledge? Consider the following argument:

1) If I know that I have hands then I know I'm not just in the Matrix being deceived into thinking I have hands.
2) I don't know that I'm not in the Matrix.
3) Therefore, I don't know that I have hands (Modus Tollens: 1,2)

This is a valid argument that is meant to motivate skepticism. Philosophers have tried to reject 1 or 2 in an effort to preserve our knowledge from the skeptics, but results are mixed. Is this argument a genuine threat to our ordinary knowledge claims?

I wonder if my colour blue looks the same as your colour blue.


This question was thought to just be a purely philosophical thought experiment. It was considered impossible for the longest time to verify that someone has color inversion. But then, doctors discovered that a very low number of people actually do have color inversion. What looks green to us looks red to them, although they would still call that color red because they learned the color empirically. What's interesting is that if we had the same color experience as one with color inversion, we would identify those colors differently.
This fact could motivate skepticism about the status of our knowledge of our internal states - a very problematic result.
I wonder if the same outcome could be motivated by general skepticism about reality...
My thought isn't really about a tree, it's just about an object that I think is there which really isn't.

If you proved that you weren't real would you cease to exist?


This question is actually pointless. The topic is certainly not. If you don't think this is a genuine question, then don't post here.
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

We could all be some ten year old kid's dream.


That would be one borderline psychotic kid, lol. I'd watch him if I were his parents. xD

We do exist. We are alive. We see, smell, taste, feel, and hear. These are what make us alive, and what make us, us. Even if my purple looks green to you, or my perception of money is totally different, we are all alive. Our perception doesn't matter, only what we alone see. If what we see is defined as our reality, then it is reality to us. It's what we have to live through until our reality stops.

Nobody's perception is the same. We all see the world from a different angle and have differing opinions on it. But it IS there, whichever way you look at it, even if we ARE a ten year olds dream, that dream is our reality.
Blu3sBr0s
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Blu3sBr0s
1,287 posts
Nomad

If you're going to take the pragmatist line here, you're going to have to define what you mean by &quotractical" knowledge. William James, a renowned pragmatist, said that was is pragmatic is what is expedient to believe. But this gets us into a infinite regress: is it expedient to believe that it is expedient to believe that x?
The move here is to say that pragmatism isn't so much a theory as it is a light suggestion, so it doesn't have to hold up to the scrutiny it demands. Even with this response, we can press the question as to whether we are really here is a pragmatic question.
It sure seems to be - if we know that we aren't really here, this would certainly affect the way we live our day to day lives (this is a more broad version of pragmatism).
If you're wanting to argue that this question isn't meaningful because it isn't verifiable, well, then you're just a verificationist. And that's become sort of a bad world in contemporary philosophy.


I disagree. You have made on unfortunate assumption and that is that you took the fact that if YOU knew you were real it would affect your day to day life and applied it to everyone. This fact would not change my life. Say I knew I did not exist, and the reality I lived in was not reality. There is no way for me to truly exist and no way for me to truly live in reality. Therefore the closest I can get to existence and reality would then be to lead a normal life. I would not go around being needlessly reckless with my life as, if I die in the only reality I am aware of (even if it isn't THE reality) I still die. Even if I don't really exist I would cease to be conscious.

And *sigh* it all comes to life after death...why does this happen with everything? lol.

But it IS there, whichever way you look at it, even if we ARE a ten year olds dream, that dream is our reality.


Yay for agreeing with what I was trying to say in my 1st post
delossantosj
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delossantosj
6,672 posts
Nomad

But, who's to say what is real? What if nothing is and reality is something completely different? We could all be some ten year old kid's dream.


we dont know anything so we as the dominent species dicide
EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

Yay for agreeing with what I was trying to say in my 1st post


It's these kinds of questions that make me not want to ever even look at a philosophical book, lol.

And you're welcome.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

We do exist. We are alive. We see, smell, taste, feel, and hear. These are what make us alive, and what make us, us. Even if my purple looks green to you, or my perception of money is totally different, we are all alive. Our perception doesn't matter, only what we alone see. If what we see is defined as our reality, then it is reality to us. It's what we have to live through until our reality stops.


If perception is reality, then our definition of what is real and not real is very narrow. Have you ever had a dream that you thought was real? One where you smelt, tasted, saw, felt and heard? One where you woke up and were confused because you thought it was real? Yet, so many will conclude that dreams are not real. But by our definition of reality they must be. Yet, they are not.

Or is it that when we dream we truly live and when we wake we truly dream?
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