ForumsWEPRJesus was a Liberal

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samy
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samy
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Social Justice? Check
Helping the Poor? Check
Rendering what is Ceaser's to Ceaser? Check
Disdain for the wealthy? Check
Pacifist? Check
Feminist? Check
Dislike of idiotic yelling Mormons? Check

Conservative Christianity is not only ignorant it;s simply wrong. The New Testament is clearly left winged and it's about the messiah, come on Christian America use your brains.

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MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

Bad argument. The people who lived in the time of Jesus had a very Oral tradition and many young kids who were being tought the law could be expected to memorize alot of the old testiment. It would have been no problem for them to remmember what Jesus did.


O Rly?? Ever play a game of telephone? Doesn't matter how strong the oral tradition, things get lost, changed, added, manipulated, and more fanciful with the telling. This is EXACTLY why there are no books in the Bible from Jesus own time.

Oh, and let's look at the 'miracles'. Moving further and further away from 33 BCE (the year Jesus was purported to have died) the stories get more and more fanciful with the telling (just as in a game of telephone) which illustrates the point I'm making here. The longer you wait to put a story to paper the more fanciful and fictitious the story becomes, and 25- 75 years is a long time to wait for something as important as the salvation of the human race.
samy
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samy
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People are not perfect and they sin and god knows that, and you should not be actiing like you know the bible by heart when you dont. The bible says nothing about giving to charity and you wont go to hell if you never donate to any charity. The bible also says ask and it will be given.


Seriously answer the question or else I'm assuming that you can't and are simply wrong.

Wrong. They gave to the Christian community with their own free will a government didn't make them.


Fair, but, once again, socialism was prevalent in the early church AND Jesus instructed his followers to pay any taxes the government gives.

and by the way how do I earn the right.


Not calling me an idiot in the first place, get a feel for how I and others debate. Then you may call me an idiot.

Umm how about I challenge you to find somewhere in the Bible where Jesus was for making people give their money to the community. Remember the word MAKE.


Again good point but in a world where the church refuses to live up to it's God given law to support the poor I ask what's the best option for a sane Christian? To support the community through government or to not support it at all.

By that I am saying obviously Jesus was not a soccialist as he rarely spoke against the rich in his parables. alot of them were how the rich people punished their wicked servants. Let's see rich people and servants?


It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

Mark 10:25

Yeah.

alot of them were how the rich people punished their wicked servants


Er, where? And even if they're there as they are parables it's highly likely that it was an analogy comparing the Jew's to the servants and the master to God. But then again subjectivity is what makes a parable a parable.

It would have been no problem for them to remmember what Jesus did.


Or to make up a story.

Samy Im not saying your going to hell for calling Jesus a liberal


You literally said that.

but your simply making too many &quotredictions" and off the top of your head statements saying that you actually met the man.


Provide a biblical counter argument to my biblical argument then. Holt seems capable and in fact has made some great points, you just babble.
holt24
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holt24
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If it was so important and Jesus did perform awsome miracles then do you think that is somehting they would forget. and like I said there society was very oral so they would be expected to remember things very accurately.

samy
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samy
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If it was so important and Jesus did perform awsome miracles then do you think that is somehting they would forget. and like I said there society was very oral so they would be expected to remember things very accurately.


What do you think about The Odyssey by Homer?
XXAlienGirlXX
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XXAlienGirlXX
810 posts
Nomad

Its a good book.

samy
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samy
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Nomad

Its a good book.


That is a fantastic tale learnt by every new generation through an oral tradition. In making the assertion that a book is more reliable due to it being told to each new generation you must also believe that he events of the Odyssey occurred?
holt24
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holt24
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Fair, but, once again, socialism was prevalent in the early church AND Jesus instructed his followers to pay any taxes the government gives.


Taxes aren't socialist.

Again good point but in a world where the church refuses to live up to it's God given law to support the poor I ask what's the best option for a sane Christian? To support the community through government or to not support it at all.


Wrong again can you tell me a church that doesn't give to charity?

It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."
Mark 10:25
Yeah.


It is saying that rich people care more about there possesions than they do God. Nothing socialist about it.


Er, where? And even if they're there as they are parables it's highly likely that it was an analogy comparing the Jew's to the servants and the master to God. But then again subjectivity is what makes a parable a parable.


Can't argue with that one.

It would have been no problem for them to remmember what Jesus did.
Or to make up a story.


Or remember what he did. It's a bad argument to say that the Bible is embelished because they COULD have lied.

What do you think about The Odyssey by Homer?


Umm I don't know what you are trying to say there. Do you mean that there are true parts to the story but over time people embelished it. What do you think about Alexander the great. We got everything we know about him from oral tradition that was finnaly written down hundreds of years after his death.
samy
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samy
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Taxes aren't socialist.


Never said they were, okay whatever Jesus wasn't a socialist I don't care it wasn't one of my early points; however, you can't deny that the early church had socialistic tendencies.

Wrong again can you tell me a church that doesn't give to charity?


You do realize that if the church fulfilled it's given role poverty would almost be non-existent.

It is saying that rich people care more about there possesions than they do God. Nothing socialist about it.


That wasn't my point, my point was that he spoke against wealth and material possessions strongly and regularly. Again Jesus wasn't a socialist you win, be happy.

Or remember what he did. It's a bad argument to say that the Bible is embelished because they COULD have lied.


Not really, it's pretty good actually. It would seem that people generally lie when power is concerned. What's more powerful than being the chosen race of god or associating with God as a man. Hell I'd lie.

Umm I don't know what you are trying to say there. Do you mean that there are true parts to the story but over time people embelished it. What do you think about Alexander the great. We got everything we know about him from oral tradition that was finnaly written down hundreds of years after his death.


I'm saying that saying oral traditions are more reliable is like saying that all the events that took place in the Odyssey are true simply because it was spoken to the next generation.
XXAlienGirlXX
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XXAlienGirlXX
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Nomad

That is a fantastic tale learnt by every new generation through an oral tradition. In making the assertion that a book is more reliable due to it being told to each new generation you must also believe that he events of the Odyssey occurred?


Here Samy read this:

Does evil exist?

The university professor challenged his students with this question. Did God create everything that exists? A student bravely replied, "Yes, he did!"

"God created everything? The professor asked.

"Yes sir", the student replied.

The professor answered, "If God created everything, then God created evil since evil exists, and according to the principal that our works define who we are then God is evil". The student became quiet before such an answer. The professor was quite pleased with himself and boasted to the students that he had proven once more that the Christian faith was a myth.

Another student raised his hand and said, "Can I ask you a question professor?"

"Of course", replied the professor.

The student stood up and asked, "Professor, does cold exist?"

"What kind of question is this? Of course it exists. Have you never been cold?" The students snickered at the young man's question.

The young man replied, "In fact sir, cold does not exist. According to the laws of physics, what we consider cold is in reality the absence of heat. Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or transmit energy. Absolute zero (-460 degrees F) is the total absence of heat; all matter becomes inert and incapable of reaction at that temperature. Cold does not exist. We have created this word to describe how we feel if we have no heat."

The student continued, "Professor, does darkness exist?"

The professor responded, "Of course it does."

The student replied, "Once again you are wrong sir, darkness does not exist either. Darkness is in reality the absence of light. Light we can study, but not darkness. In fact we can use Newton's prism to break white light into many colors and study the various wavelengths of each color. You cannot measure darkness. A simple ray of light can break into a world of darkness and illuminate it. How can you know how dark a certain space is? You measure the amount of light present. Isn't this correct? Darkness is a term used by man to describe what happens when there is no light present."

Finally the young man asked the professor, "Sir, does evil exist?"

Now uncertain, the professor responded, "Of course as I have already said. We see it every day. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man. It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world. These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is not like faith, or love that exist just as does light and heat. Evil is the result of what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart. It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

The young man's name -- Albert Einstein.
samy
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samy
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Holy Jesus Christ I came up with that very argument on my own. Wow I may be smarter than I originally though, hm.

For the record I was a Christian until very recently and I love Christian people; however, I hate Christian conservatism (not the individual but the philosophy). Also that post doesn't really belong in this thread and Einstein wasn't a Christian near the end of his life but that's for another thread.

XXAlienGirlXX
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XXAlienGirlXX
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Nomad

Im not a christian conservative. Samy.

samy
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samy
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Er, good. Never said you were my point was that if I seem angry, harsh, or anti Christian in this thread it comes from my dislike of Christianity being used as a means to reach a politically conservative end. Or any ends really, Jesus was more of a centrist but nothing makes people think like making them mad.

XXAlienGirlXX
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XXAlienGirlXX
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Nomad

I agree exactly Samy. I think that it is corrupt in many ways, especially in "illuminati" sort of ways. :P

holt24
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holt24
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Nomad

Never said they were, okay whatever Jesus wasn't a socialist I don't care it wasn't one of my early points; however, you can't deny that the early church had socialistic tendencies.


Actually I can. No one forced them to give to the church they did it out of their free will where as socialism does not give people the option to give, it forces people to give.

You do realize that if the church fulfilled it's given role poverty would almost be non-existent.


Some churches simply are to small and don't get enough money to give alot to charity but you are right that many churches have plenty of money to give and should give it but the pastor takes the money for himself. This is not a problem with the church but some people who are the head of the church and also I douby poverty would be nonexistant.

That wasn't my point, my point was that he spoke against wealth and material possessions strongly and regularly.


Then we agree on this one.


Not really, it's pretty good actually. It would seem that people generally lie when power is concerned. What's more powerful than being the chosen race of god or associating with God as a man. Hell I'd lie.


Well for a long time and when the new testemint was being written Christians were tortured and killed so why would you want to lie about that if you would be killed.

I'm saying that saying oral traditions are more reliable is like saying that all the events that took place in the Odyssey are true simply because it was spoken to the next generation.


If they lived in an oral society then the next generation would also be able to remember things very well. Once again Everything we know about Alexander the Great was from information written hundreds of years after his death but no one challenges what he did.
MRWalker82
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MRWalker82
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Shepherd

However, Holt, Einsteins argument also disproves the tripartate deity worshiped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims. You see, if evil is an absence of God then God is not omnipresent.

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