I think I found something that can top Moe's philosophical topics.
So, Armor Games. How do we know that we aren't in an afterlife right now? What if the afterlife really means continuing with your soul but still retains the spirit of living? We can take the different theories of the afterlife, heaven, hell, and purgatory for example, and translate it into:
"what if X is really Y?" X meaning said afterlife theory, and Y meaning NOW.
-- What if this is Heaven? To the end, God gave us the power of freewill. I think both ends of the religious spectrum can agree with that. What if even in the afterlife of Heaven, God still gives us freewill and we are able to venture out into wherever we want? Some of the religious believe that, in Heaven, we are able to wish upon anything and it happens. What if said transcendentals wished to be back to live on Earth? Surely, some time between death and eternity, some guys would want to go back and live out plain ol' life, right?
--What if this is Purgatory? It takes certain credos to be not qualified for Heaven, but also not qualified for Hell. So what if leaving on Earth is really a Purgatory, and that it's a "second chance" at transcending into Heaven or Hell? This is probably the one that makes the most sense; Earth is filled with a marble cake of good and evil; you get a mix of both ends of the alignment spectrum. So Purgatory can be a "reincarnation" of sorts so give us an extra 80 years of life of trying once again to transcend into Heaven or Hell.
--What if this is Hell? What if part of the endless, eternal torture that Satan has brewed up for the damned is "showing us what life is like and hopelessly trying to get back into the Lord, even though it's a folly? That can bring pain upon those that were so foolish enough to not believe in God, right? (speaking in perspective here, don't hit me!) It would bring lots of pain! So that's why Satan would want to do such a thing before bringing them back to Hell to be thoroughly tortured again. Brings a chill down your spine. How do you know if you are practicing the right faith, if you are really just a prisoner of your original faith, doomed to fall down into Hell once more after you're dead?
oooooooooh......
--What if this is just a dream? Some theorize that when you die, your last dream, most fulfilling dream, or the most precious dream contained in your brain is the dream you will live with forever when you die. Nothing more to say, is there? Everyone discussing on the forums and having their own life, your past self dreamed that before they died, so they are living it in death. Some can even go so far as to say this is a part of reincarnation--your most precious dream becomes a reality, until you die again, then THAT most precious dream becomes the second reality.
Hey, now that I think about it, that can make a pretty good story, wouldn't it?
We can discuss the finer points of the different concepts of afterlives, but right now I just want to touch on the how. How do you know that what you're experiencing is NOT the afterlife?
Brain in a vat discusses reality as a whole, whether what we are experiencing is "real" or just a simulation. What we are discussing in this thread are the many afterlives that are taught to us and whether or not they can be interpreted as being exercised right now. How do we know or not? Evidence or speculation to back up those claims?
*This is only my opinion* I'm going to refer to something I've mentioned before about my mother's death. Before she died her home still had her essence that I can only describe as something like this: You walk into your grandmother's home while she is out, shopping. You feel welcomed and loved, even when she's not there, physically. Later, you go house hunting and walk into a cold empty house that's been vacant for a while. I say cold but I'm not talking about the fahrenheit, the place is cold because no one lives there.
If this is an afterlife I think we would know it because we would no longer be burdened with gravity, pain or illness and injury. We would no longer require driving vehicles. We wouldn't need to eat, sleep and our neighbors wouldn't stop to talk to us anymore because they wouldn't be able to see us.
The number of times that I've wondered that is astounding. There was also a point where I thought what if we really just lived in a giant bubble and we never knew it?
Frank your theory sounds pretty cool, what if hell is more like the Greek version of Hades. Everyone goes there, but the way you acted in life decides how your afterlife goes. So the Fields of Asphodel (mediocre, no really big achievements), Elysium (Whatever your personal fantasy is), The fields of punishment (Poverty, suffering, degradation, etc. generally whatever makes you miserable) and Tartarus either doesn't exist or is saved for the supreme baddies.
Your used to that being your grans house, so this figures.
the place is cold because no one lives there.
The heating isnt on :P
If this is an afterlife I think we would know it because we would no longer be burdened with gravity, pain or illness and injury. We would no longer require driving vehicles. We wouldn't need to eat, sleep and our neighbors wouldn't stop to talk to us anymore because they wouldn't be able to see us.
Not if this world is what we chose as the afterlife.
i think your having matrix delusions.
I think your butt would be taken over by agent smith in a millisecond.
An immaterial spirit that occupies individual brains is complete nonsense. Soul as an eternal consciousness or intellect, to me is plain superstition.
Why? We can agree that there are other dimensions. I think the "soul" is merely the link we have to these. Nothing mystical or intangible.
Therefore here is my answer to your question: this is not the afterlife because neither humans nor even animals have souls.
Even if we dont have a soul that is no reason why there is no afterlife.
Its an interesting concept and kinda ties in with the levels of enlightenment that buddists believe. When your done with this "lane" of existence you move up or down depending on the life you led.
Im not sure what I believe in that respect... we are all one entity, not necessarily as one conciousness and aw that jazz but there is no escaping our connection to everything. I guess I will or wont find out when the time comes. Its good to think about it tho. Maybe later in life when I crap my pants enough about death I will turn to buddah, spaghetti man or god or sumthin!
I think the "soul" is merely the link we have to these.
I understand and resect your point, nevertheless I don't share it. It's hard for me to believe in something perpetual.
Even if we dont have a soul that is no reason why there is no afterlife.
The concept of the soul has strong links with notions of an afterlife. For an afterlife to exist, there must be something that survives the body when death occurs. Usually this something is the soul.
ps.There is the theory that our genes predispose us to belief in a soul.
I've mentioned this before, but I started and almost made a variations of Brain in a Vat my thesis for philosophy. I even went so far as to calling Hilary Putnam at his house and spoke to him for an hour about it.
Kudos if you know of Mr. Putnam.
Nonetheless, the topic is very interesting, and there is a good number of articles and books that pertain to this idea. I might have something more to contribute later.
Your theory is based on the assumption that humans have a soul. That assumption is arbitrary.
Where did souls have to come into existence here? Why?
Whether or not we are discussing that afterlives are a bunch of BS, we are discussing the afterlives, ASSUMING that they are real. That's the thing with philosophy. You get a set of objectives and you discuss the scenarios as such.
So. ASSUMING the afterlives exist, and yes, souls, how do we know we are not living them now? The only thing we have been doing now is beat about the bush.
I know that a number of religions believe that this world MUST be the afterlife because you are free to do what you want - eat, drink and be merry - what they consider paradise.
It's estimated that 9 to 18 percent of people who are near death have a near-death experience. These experiences are evidence of an afterlife. If there is evidence of an (other) afterlife this life cannot be considered an afterlife. Therefore what we are experiencing is not the afterlife.
Near-death experiences aren't evidence of anything at al. Imagine what it's like when you're close to death - more than likely your brain will be working overtime and not necessarily correctly.
