Life is Pointless. - Armor Games Community

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted October 11, '10 11:04pm UTC

True. We are, however, wondering the point, the endgame, not the journey. I guess we could say that our purpose is clear, our point is not.

End to be attained, an end or object to be achieved. Yeah I don't see where it says the journey in that.

I think this maybe the crux of the matter. The point is the finality which will be the end. By that time, life will have lost its point/purpose. Hence, pointless.

even speaking subjectively a person can fulfill their goals in life before they die. so even at the end of life the point/purpose of that life still holds.

There is no objective purpose to our existence. It simply is, and we are left to define it's meaning and purpose ourselves, and only for ourselves.

What do you think of assigning objective purpose based on intrinsic properties?

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 11, '10 11:07pm UTC

What do you think of assigning objective purpose based on intrinsic properties?

I disagree. An objective purpose, by it's own definition, must exist outside of our perception and be the same for everyone. This is not the case, as even our most basic, animalistic drives, such as procreation, are not even shared uniformly throughout the species. I have yet to find any goal in life that is shared by the entire population and therefore, just like our morals, our purpose, meaning, and drives are all subjective and personal.

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 12:10am UTC

What is the objective point of life?
I think this is the point that has a lot of you scratching your heads? The factual point of life is------?
I can think of several objectives I would like to accomplish but I can't speak for the entire human race's objective on this earth. I can only speak for myself and I can't even speak for my husband and I certainly can not speak for my son.
A married couple may plan their retirement together and how they want their final wishes carried out, when they die, but I don't know exactly how long I will live so it's pointless to plan out every day of my life.
Besides, I'm too spontaneous to live a stiff, structured life. I love stopping and smelling the coffee before I step outside to smell the roses!

What is the subjective point of life?
This is the emo cycle of life. Humans are emotional beings who care deeply for our families, especially the children and the elderly who can't fend for themselves. We spend a lot of time, energy and money protecting the ones we love from all kinds of dangers. I would say the most important job I've ever had wasn't the one with a paycheck, it's being the best mom I can be. Soon, it will be my son's turn to take care of himself and so the cycle continues.

What is the intrinsic point of life?
I'll define intrinsic here to mean the fundementally natural point of life, which is base and has to do largely with reproduction. Comparing humans to primates and following the law-of-the-jungle, the truly fittest with the strongest immune system will survive. My generation's point of survival is to continue the path of evolution towards the healthiest generation that has ever lived, which is you guys born in the 1990's.

What is the altruistic point of life?
When I made my decision to be a caregiver and then later, a wife and a mother was when I decided to focus my energies on other people and the quality of their lives. This, for me has been the most fulfiling purpose of my life but it isn't the total point for living.

What is the [i]objective[/i] point of life?\r\nI think this is the point that has a lot of you scratching your heads? The factual point of life is------?\r\nI can think of several objectives I would like to accomplish but I can't speak for the entire human race's objective on this earth. I can only speak for myself and I can't even speak for my husband and I certainly can not speak for my son.\r\n A married couple may plan their retirement together and how they want their final wishes carried out, when they die, but I don't know exactly how long I will live so it's pointless to plan out every day of my life. \r\nBesides, I'm too spontaneous to live a stiff, structured life. I love stopping and smelling the coffee before I step outside to smell the roses!\r\n\r\n\r\nWhat is the [i]subjective[/i] point of life?\r\nThis is the emo cycle of life. Humans are emotional beings who care deeply for our families, especially the children and the elderly who can't fend for themselves. We spend a lot of time, energy and money protecting the ones we love from all kinds of dangers. I would say the most important job I've ever had wasn't the one with a paycheck, it's being the best mom I can be. Soon, it will be my son's turn to take care of himself and so the cycle continues.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nWhat is the [i]intrinsic[/i] point of life?\r\nI'll define intrinsic here to mean the [i]fundementally natural[/i] point of life, which is base and has to do largely with reproduction. Comparing humans to primates and following the law-of-the-jungle, the truly fittest with the strongest immune system will survive. My generation's point of survival is to continue the path of evolution towards the healthiest generation that has ever lived, which is you guys born in the 1990's.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nWhat is the [i]altruistic[/i] point of life?\r\nWhen I made my decision to be a caregiver and then later, a wife and a mother was when I decided to focus my energies on other people and the quality of their lives. This, for me has been the most fulfiling purpose of my life but it isn't the total[i] point for living[/i].

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 12, '10 12:21am UTC

Even then, Wajor, every goal/point you described are purely subjective. They are your interpretation, and based on your experience. This is the point I was making earlier, there is no objective purpose to our existence, just as there is no such thing as objective morality. Everything is what we make it or interpret it to be.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted October 12, '10 12:25am UTC

What is the objective point of life?
I think this is the point that has a lot of you scratching your heads? The factual point of life is------?
I can think of several objectives I would like to accomplish but I can't speak for the entire human race's objective on this earth. I can only speak for myself and I can't even speak for my husband and I certainly can not speak for my son.

That's not what objective means here.

This one probably fits best.
"of or pertaining to something that can be known, or to something that is an object or a part of an object; existing independent of thought or an observer as part of reality."

So an objective point to life would be a point fitting life outside of individual existences.

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Zaork

439 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 5:13am UTC

what timescale are we talking here.

Well I believe we are talking on an eternal timescale. Life will continue to exist even once it has died. What I mean is; Life as a concept continues to survive. Even if there is no life to attribute the meaning to. Consequently, the timescale is infinite. Which means that

every life and death has an effect of the world

but this may not have an effect eternally. Thus, life is pointless.

even speaking subjectively a person can fulfill their goals in life before they die. so even at the end of life the point/purpose of that life still holds.

And what if the reasons for those goals become/were unnecessary? Say for instance a persons goal was to become a plumber. They do that. Then the universe collapses. Then a realisation that there never was a universe. Or plumbers. Or that guy. Due to the fact that we are unable to absolutely define our existence, no assumptions about the point of life can be made. As MrWalker said

An objective purpose, by it's own definition, must exist outside of our perception

.

[quote]what timescale are we talking here.[/quote]\r\nWell I believe we are talking on an eternal timescale. Life will continue to exist even once it has died. What I mean is; Life as a concept continues to survive. Even if there is no life to attribute the meaning to. Consequently, the timescale is infinite. Which means that [quote]every life and death has an effect of the world[/quote] but this may not have an effect eternally. Thus, life is pointless.\r\n\r\n[quote]even speaking subjectively a person can fulfill their goals in life before they die. so even at the end of life the point/purpose of that life still holds.[/quote]\r\nAnd what if the reasons for those goals become/were unnecessary? Say for instance a persons goal was to become a plumber. They do that. Then the universe collapses. Then a realisation that there never was a universe. Or plumbers. Or that guy. Due to the fact that we are unable to absolutely define our existence, no assumptions about the point of life can be made. As MrWalker said [quote]An objective purpose, by it's own definition, must exist outside of our perception[/quote].

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted October 12, '10 5:36am UTC

Well I believe we are talking on an eternal timescale. Life will continue to exist even once it has died. What I mean is; Life as a concept continues to survive. Even if there is no life to attribute the meaning to. Consequently, the timescale is infinite.

That makes absolutely no sense.

And what if the reasons for those goals become/were unnecessary?

As a subjective purpose it would have been necessary to that person, even if it wasn't to anyone or anything else. So it wouldn't matter if the universe collapsed afterwords.

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Zaork

439 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 5:42am UTC

Well I believe we are talking on an eternal timescale. Life will continue to exist even once it has died. What I mean is; Life as a concept continues to survive. Even if there is no life to attribute the meaning to. Consequently, the timescale is infinite.

That makes absolutely no sense.

Ok. The concept of life continues to exist. Even if there is no more life, the concept continues. Better?

As a subjective purpose it would have been necessary to that person, even if it wasn't to anyone or anything else. So it wouldn't matter if the universe collapsed afterwords.

Who is to say that that person exists at all.
I'm getting Descartes up in here.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted October 12, '10 6:19am UTC

Ok. The concept of life continues to exist. Even if there is no more life, the concept continues. Better?

How does that work if there is none to hold the concept?

Who is to say that that person exists at all.

I don't think this is the topic to get into the argument of if reality is real.

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Zaork

439 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 6:29am UTC

How does that work if there is none to hold the concept?

The concept still exists even if there is no one to speak of it. Life as a concept wasn't created, it was discovered.

I don't think this is the topic to get into the argument of if reality is real.

Wouldn't the meaning behind our existence be linked to that?

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted October 12, '10 6:56am UTC

The concept still exists even if there is no one to speak of it. Life as a concept wasn't created, it was discovered.

Still not following. a concept isn't some external thing but a construct of the mind. So the concept of something can't exist if there's no one to conceive it.

concept; 1: something conceived in the mind 2: an abstract or generic idea generalized from particular instances

Wouldn't the meaning behind our existence be linked to that?

Nope.

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Highfire

3,025 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 7:04am UTC

Just sayin'. There has not been one permanent thing done by a human on this Earth, to Earth. Our lives revolve around the fact that we want to be happy and make a lot of money, but what is true happieness, and if we find it, it is pointless to another human who is still searching for their happieness and vica-versa.
Not trying to be a downer here, but I just want to know what you think about the futility of being a mortal with no real purpose other than to find a personal Utopia.

Sounds ungrateful.
Not to mention, whom's to say we can't leave our mark?
Let's find out, that's what I wanna do, find out what we can do, sure, we're mortal, who wouldn't want to be?
WHO'S WITH ME?!?!
...
Oh, nevermind.

- H

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 9:07pm UTC

MrWalker said:

Even then, Wajor, every goal/point you described are purely subjective. They are your interpretation, and based on your experience. This is the point I was making earlier, there is no objective purpose to our existence, just as there is no such thing as objective morality. Everything is what we make it or interpret it to be.

I also stated that I couldn't speak for the objectivity of the human race's point to life.
All I can do is list individual objectives or individual goals which is another definition of the word.

I'm sure, after I think about it long enough, I could find a purpose for the human race's point to life. Just as I'm also sure the human race benefits the earth, as we benefit from it. If nothing else than to become the next link in the chain of evolution? Just as we share some of the same DNA components as most every organic living thing on this earth and from space we at least become fertilizer when we die at sea or during natural disasters, naturally without being embalmed.

True, the term objective morality in itself is a contradiction in terms because to be objective, as I understand the word to mean is without the mind or without judgments.

Mage said:

So an objective point to life would be a point fitting life outside of individual existences.

Wiki defines it as, "a central and elusive philosophical category,... a proposition is generally considered to be objectively true when its truth conditions are mind independent that is, not the result of any judgments made by a conscious entity or subject."

Like I mentioned above, the human race's point to life could be as simple as becoming fertilizer when we die, naturally, with no chemicals embalming the bodies. The human race would then benefit the earth without indemnity. As the human race has become more civilized, to other humans we, as a race, have equally moved far from this basic exchange, life for a life.
with the advent of religion, it became uncivilized to cremate the remains but to bury them instead.

What about human husbandry of all organic life? Doesn't this role of caretaker quality the human race as having an objective point to life?

MrWalker said:\r\n[quote][i]Even then, Wajor, every goal/point you described are purely subjective. They are your interpretation, and based on your experience. This is the point I was making earlier, there is no objective purpose to our existence, just as there is no such thing as objective morality. Everything is what we make it or interpret it to be.[/i][/quote]\r\n\r\nI also stated that I couldn't speak for the [i]objectivity[/i] of the human race's point to life.\r\nAll I can do is list individual [i]objectives[/i] or individual goals which is another definition of the word.\r\n\r\nI'm sure, after I think about it long enough, I could find a purpose for the human race's point to life. Just as I'm also sure the human race benefits the earth, as we benefit from it. If nothing else than to become the next link in the chain of evolution? Just as we share some of the same DNA components as most every organic [i]living[/i] thing on this earth and from space we at least become fertilizer when we die at sea or during natural disasters, naturally without being embalmed. \r\n\r\nTrue, the term [i]objective morality[/i] in itself is a contradiction in terms because to be objective, as I understand the word to mean is [i]without the mind[/i] or [i]without judgments[/i].\r\n\r\n\r\nMage said:\r\n[quote][b]So an objective point to life would be a point fitting life outside of individual existences.[/b][/quote]\r\n\r\nWiki defines it as, "a central and elusive philosophical category,... a proposition is generally considered to be objectively true when its truth conditions are [i]mind independent[/i] that is, not the result of any judgments made by a conscious entity or subject."\r\n\r\nLike I mentioned above, the human race's point to life could be as simple as becoming fertilizer when we die, naturally, with no chemicals embalming the bodies. The human race would then benefit the earth without indemnity.  As the human race has become more civilized, to other humans we, as a race, have equally moved far from this basic exchange, [i]life for a life[/i].\r\nwith the advent of religion, it became uncivilized to cremate the remains but to bury them instead.\r\n\r\nWhat about human [i]husbandry[/i] of all organic life? Doesn't this role of caretaker quality the human race as having an objective point to life?

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wajor59

909 posts

Nomad

Posted October 12, '10 9:15pm UTC

Oops, a typo on the last sentence, should read:
...caretaker qualify(, not quality) the human...

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crazyrussian97

256 posts

Shepherd

Posted October 12, '10 9:21pm UTC

Just as I'm also sure the human race benefits the earth, as we benefit from it

How do humans benifit the Earth? I'm no hippy, but I'm sure that human influence does nothing but consume the Earth and leech off of it. As for becoming fertilizer, I'm sure the less intelligent and less destructive species fullfil that requirement well enough without our help. Besides,there are plenty of chemicals when people are buried, so that the bodies can be preserved for viewing before the burial and the various chemicals on the caskets we are buried in (of course, this does not count the people cremated).

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