ForumsWEPRLetter to the Editor

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Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

This was in this morning's newspaper as a letter to the editor. I found it interesting because it gives an unfavored opinion on Obama. I have a neutral Obama stance. My political beliefs lie deeper than a single man. That's not the point. I'd like to post the letter I read and just want to hear responses.

There is no right or wrong answer here, just your reaction to the letter.

"Editor,

After 12 years of Republican rule and failed policies, Americans turn their backs on change after just two years. Despite the fact that the Democratic Congress pulled the country back from the brink of economic disaster, and despite the fact that the stimulus and economic policies of the Obama administration have saved or created more than three million jobs (Wall Street Journal, July 14), including 225,000 in Texas alone. We are indeed a fickle nation now that panics when it does not see immediate results. In early 2009, the nation sat on the edge of the abyss of a brutal recession because of Bush administration incorrect financial policies , tax cuts for the top 2 percent and a war in Iraq. Monthly job loss was 750,000 because of the destructive ideology of the Republicans in Congress.

President Obama and his financial team stabilized our economy, stopped the housing market free-for-all, saved the American Auto Industry, and charted a course for the full recovery of our financial system. However, since this plan entails more than 18 months to complete, and the uninformed in this country continue to get their news from the right-wing propaganda machine, Fox News, we will continue to cower from progressive ideas to our ultimate detriment.

If one truly wants to understand the crisis the Obama administration averted, they would do well to read Alan S. Binder's "How the Great recession was Brought to an End."
  • 23 Replies
Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

My initial reaction is: what is the letter's author actually arguing here? A charitable reading would have the conclusion as something like "the Obama administration ended a recession that was started by Republican policies." But on this interpretation, the letter provides no defense for the claim.
I'm on the fence with Obama. But I doubt anyone right now would say that the decisions Obama made effectively ended the recession and "stabilized our economy." We're treading water right now, and it's far from clear that our economy is stable. And there's no way of knowing right now whether the actions of the Obama administration were the primary motivation for the end of the recession, or if it was simply a product of normal economic ebb-and-flow. In other words, we don't know if the recession ended because of the Obama administration or simply during the Obama administration. (Obviously it happened during, but that does not entail a causal link. The vacuum cleaner could break while I'm using it, but that does not entail that it broke because I was using it).
As for the individual claims made in the letter, I don't think they're substantiated at all. Consider the following:

After 12 years of Republican rule


Republicans were only in office for 8 years before Obama. Bush served 2 terms and before his was Clinton, a democrat.

saved or created more than three million jobs


I don't know where the author gets this number, but job creation figures are notoriously sticky. To be clear, there aren't 3 million more jobs nationwide that there were when Obama took office. And job creation isn't really the number we're interested in anyway, it's job growth. I make money every day, but I also spend it. If I just focused on what I was making, I'd be hosed.

In early 2009, the nation sat on the edge of the abyss of a brutal recession because of Bush administration incorrect financial policies , tax cuts for the top 2 percent and a war in Iraq.


This sentence has problems far beyond the poor wording. While these may have been some contributing factors, this is hardly an exhaustive or comprehensive list. What about the housing bubble? What about the poor bank and creditor regulations? These were far more significant that "incorrect financial decisions." And many of the regulations under question were, if I'm not mistaken, developed during the Clinton era.
As for the 2 percent tax cuts, that's just ludicrous. Congress just voted to extend these tax cuts. And while it was a reluctant Democratic party who chipped in the needed votes, they were not reluctant because they felt that the tax cuts contributed to the recession.

charted a course for the full recovery of our financial system


We have no idea where the course we are on will take us. Yes, the economy has stopped tanking and job growth has been steadily rising. But we're no where near the growth we have historically seen and needed (apx. 2.5 percent) and even farther from the 5 percent growth we typically see after an economic downturn.

However, since this plan entails more than 18 months to complete, and the uninformed in this country continue to get their news from the right-wing propaganda machine, Fox News, we will continue to cower from progressive ideas to our ultimate detriment.


This whole sentence is a non sequitur. Not only that, it seems to suggest, by "out ultimate detriment," that we are somehow doomed. I get the impression that things aren't looking great when I read this sentence. But if the course to financial stability has already been charted, what exactly is the author worried about?


So, in short: yet another example of someone who doesn't understand the whole picture trying to have an opinion. I'm not claiming I understand it, but that's why I don't write letters to the editor.
Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

So, in short: yet another example of someone who doesn't understand the whole picture trying to have an opinion.


I read this letter at least 3 times and I couldn't put my finger on it. I couldn't explain properly what was wrong. Your response was EXACTLY what I was looking for, as usual Moe!
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Hmm...is the recession really over? Just a question, the US dollar still is rather weak?

Personally, I don't support any party in American politics, the Republicans are too God-fearing and conservative, yet the Democrats are too liberal for my palate. I don't even trust democracy in the first place...

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Your response was EXACTLY what I was looking for, as usual Moe!


*blush* thanks, chick

Hmm...is the recession really over? Just a question, the US dollar still is rather weak?


Yes, the recession technically ended in June 2009. Pretty funny, right? What's even funnier is that the economic panel which determines these things wasn't able to tell until late September 2010. But their determination is based on many, many factors and complex economic formulas. My very basic understanding of it is that it has to do with consecutive quarters of economic stability, whatever that means.
As for the dollar's weakness, that's an interesting point. Since the recession was a global phenomenon, I'm not sure that we lost much in comparison to other foreign currency. Every economy sort of tanked. I mean, you're absolutely right that the dollar is pretty weak, but I'm not sure that it was that much weaker than it usually is.

Personally, I don't support any party in American politics, the Republicans are too God-fearing and conservative, yet the Democrats are too liberal for my palate.


Another good point. If you're interested, you might want to check out The Federalist Papers. Much of it is kind of boring, but it's interesting to see how many of our founders and early leaders held in disdain the American public. Their thought (and I think they were probably right) was that the general public is just too stupid to really know what's best for them. A great fear was factionalization - the rise of factions within the political sphere. That's why we have the system that we do; the hope was that with so many electorates and different districts that it would be impossible for any one group to have a voice that appealed to everyone nationwide.
Of course, now we have political parties which, if I'm reading the Papers right, would be a big disappointment for the founders of our political system.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

As for the dollar's weakness, that's an interesting point. Since the recession was a global phenomenon, I'm not sure that we lost much in comparison to other foreign currency. Every economy sort of tanked. I mean, you're absolutely right that the dollar is pretty weak, but I'm not sure that it was that much weaker than it usually is.


Hmm...isn't unemployment still pretty high? I'm really not sure since S'ore's seems to have only entered a minus two percent recession then bounced back to a fifteen percent growth rate.

And I heard the US government is still loaning huge amounts of cash via China.

Of course, now we have political parties which, if I'm reading the Papers right, would be a big disappointment for the founders of our political system.


I wouldn't mind if there was a single strong party. Not two large constantly fighting parties, where almost every election it swings in favour of the other.
Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Hmm...isn't unemployment still pretty high?


Yeah. We're finally under 10 percent nation-wide - at least I'm pretty sure we are, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

bounced back to a fifteen percent growth rate.


Historically, the U.S. sees about a 5 percent growth after something like this. But right now, we're just sort of treading water. 15 percent is huge!! I'd be happy with half that But I imagine the economics of Singapore are quite different from the U.S.

And I heard the US government is still loaning huge amounts of cash via China.


You bet. China is our number 1 creditor. It's going to be interesting in a few months when China's economy has a melt-down and needs to sell back the treasury notes it has bought from us. I would how you say "default" in Chinese
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Haha, perhaps China is overspending now, but what it's spending on is tangible, railroads, roads, airports, industries etc.


Nah, we poach a lot of your discontented talent. Your Head of Cancer Research from some Institute is now our Bio Research center head.


But back on topic. Is Barack successful in other areas? What about pulling out troops from Afghanistan? He's certainly pulling out from Iraq...then putting them in some other theater. Does he truly deserve the Peace Prize? Or was it merely a sweetener and an incentive, like a push?

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Or was it merely a sweetener and an incentive, like a push?


It absolutely was an incentive. I don't think anyone here (at least anyone who has any knowledge on the topic) would delude themselves into thinking Obama got the Peace Prize for something he did. He got it for what he could do. Kinda lame, if you ask me.

As for other areas, he did pull troops out of Iraq. He said that combat operations there are over. I don't know what that means, especially since U.S. troops are still there fighting. But whatever.

I'm most disappointed by what he's done (or rather, not done) to benefit gay rights. That one was one of his big campaign points, and I was really hoping to see gay right become mandated nationwide by the end of his first term. But I really don't think that's going to happen, and I'm quite disappointed.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

what he could do


Haha, it's kind of failing seeing the new title of the latest issue of The Economist has a sullen faced Barack next to a tank with the Caption that went something like

'Not Again'.

I'm most disappointed by what he's done (or rather, not done) to benefit gay rights. That one was one of his big campaign points, and I was really hoping to see gay right become mandated nationwide by the end of his first term. But I really don't think that's going to happen, and I'm quite disappointed.


Absolutely for it, I think moralists who argue about it are going to get slammed. Again and again. If it's such a big moral issue I would like to see them debate more on the Church's abuse of children.

As for other areas, he did pull troops out of Iraq. He said that combat operations there are over. I don't know what that means, especially since U.S. troops are still there fighting. But whatever.


Saw a pic on Boxing Day of troops getting ambushed at base. Two soldiers were fighting with reindeer horn hats on.
Asherlee
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Asherlee
5,001 posts
Shepherd

I'm gonna hop on in here. The water seems nice.

He got it for what he could do. Kinda lame, if you ask me.


Extremely lame considering what was happening (and still happening) in Africa. I read that Zimbabwe's Morgan Tsvangirai should have won the Nobel prize. Tsvangirai has gone through imprisonments, beatings, and assassination attempts to bring on democracy and freedom. I don't even want to dive into homosexual executions at the moment.

I'm most disappointed by what he's done (or rather, not done) to benefit gay rights. That one was one of his big campaign points, and I was really hoping to see gay right become mandated nationwide by the end of his first term. But I really don't think that's going to happen, and I'm quite disappointed.


I feel the same. I am starting to wonder if hopping on the gay rights boat is just trendy.
nichodemus
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nichodemus
14,991 posts
Grand Duke

Well....what was the official reason for his getting the prize?

Plus...after all the ruckus, chaos, scrambles, debates, I gave up on trying to follow the Health Care debacle....

Please enlighten me on what happened. From what I know though, Americans aren't going to get free medical pot dolled out to them.

Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

Obama's policies have been pretty Keynesian.

To all you Keynesians out there, I would like to know what your response is to The Parable of the Broken Window.

Please read at least the second link before replying.

Moegreche
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Moegreche
3,826 posts
Duke

Well....what was the official reason for his getting the prize?


This is straight from the Nobel Committee's website:

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons."

Pretty vague, but that's as good as it gets. The deliberation and other candidates aren't released. I can't remember if they never get released or if there's some kind of waiting period before they're released. I think it's the latter and 50 years is popping into my head, but I'm not sure at all of this.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

Warning: I do not support Obama at all. I feel that Obama is not pushing for any change, but feeding us a bunch of soft soapy lies.

Despite the fact that the Democratic Congress pulled the country back from the brink of economic disaster, and despite the fact that the stimulus and economic policies of the Obama administration have saved or created more than three million jobs (Wall Street Journal, July 14), including 225,000 in Texas alone. We are indeed a fickle nation now that panics when it does not see immediate results.


*sings "I want to kick you in the balls"*

Bush signed a stimulus package too did he not? What about the jobs LOST? When the government creates jobs in one area, the private sector loses jobs in another. Jobs aren't created, they are moved.

tax cuts for the top 2 percent


*kick you in the balls*

Actually, I'm not exactly sure about the tax cuts. Didn't small businesses also get tax cuts? I guess I'm just waving a red flag because I'm sick of the whole "we need to suck the milk from the rich man's teets".

President Obama and his financial team stabilized our economy, stopped the housing market free-for-all, saved the American Auto Industry, and charted a course for the full recovery of our financial system.


*kick you in the balls till you fall!*

Bailouts are a short term solution! If a big company goes out of business, people will lose jobs... then find jobs elsewhere! By bailing auto companies out, you give the rich 2 percent *******s you hate so much a second chance! This hurts smaller businesses! So make up your mind! Do you want to tax the 2 percent more, or do you want to bail them out? Stop the double standards!

However, since this plan entails more than 18 months to complete, and the uninformed in this country continue to get their news from the right-wing propaganda machine, Fox News, we will continue to cower from progressive ideas to our ultimate detriment.


Again, morons such as this automatically assume everything Fox says is wrong. He assumes that everyone who is right winged when it comes to economics listens to Fox. His assumptions are utterly ridiculous.

Understand, my political views are far from liberal or conservative so I'm arguing from a very biased position.
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

BTW, I was speaking as if I was talking to the guy himself. I tend to do that sometimes.

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