I have been sick since yesterday, stuck in bed all day yesterday, and have only managed to reach my computer do to the help of modern medicine. So now it is a proper time for the "Whence Commith Evil?" thread.
So were does "evil" come from? And I am not speaking for human evil, I am speaking for natural disasters, sickness, and other things that are "evil" but not caused by humans. Why would your god create that? And if it wasn't your god who created it, who was it? And why doesn't your god simply stop it? And if your god is for some reason unable to stop disease, then why can modern medicine stop what your god can't? And if your god causes it, then why can modern medicine stop it? Is medicine more powerful than your god?
was it for the knowledge gained that they were punished or was it for the simple reason of they didn't do what they were told?
I think it was making it pretty clear many of the negative effects were from eating the fruit.
I would argue that Thomas... whether fictitious or real would of had enough information on the parameters (abilities...i think i worded it right) of Jesus Christ real or fictitious to have believed that Jesus had risen from death just as much so as those who had supposedly witnessed the holes in his hands and feet firsthand.
If this is a real account then yes I agree, he should have enough evidence to consider it possible. If however it is a fictional story it would have been a good chance to promote thinking for one self rather then just accepting claims. Even if it was real This would have still been a good chance for Jesus to point out how it was good that he was questioning the claim rather then to just believe, even if Thomas had good reason to accept the claim at face value.
this is the best thing i could fish up with the inter-nets (:3 fishing pun.)
Interesting, though this makes the issue of God requiring blind faith all that more problematic if these are in context.
from reading it... it sounds as if by eating the fruit of the tree that not only would adam and eve gain knowledge but they would lose immortality (if they had it) and then be mortal... only if you interpret "day" as the time period definition rather than the moment definition.
There was also a tree of life that would have negated such an effect, but with both knowledge and immortality God figured they would be his equals thus the reason for kicking them out of Eden.
the 2nd post was for having seen the tree of life referenced and remembering about it.... and then came the retraction... but it was mean to retract the second to last paragraph in that post.
I'm actually going to take this one a whole different direction here and posit that there is no evil. Let me refer to the OP:
So were does "evil" come from? And I am not speaking for human evil, I am speaking for natural disasters, sickness, and other things that are "evil" but not caused by humans. Why would your god create that? And if it wasn't your god who created it, who was it? And why doesn't your god simply stop it? And if your god is for some reason unable to stop disease, then why can modern medicine stop what your god can't? And if your god causes it, then why can modern medicine stop it? Is medicine more powerful than your god?
I would contend that there is no evil other than human evil. Evil is a by-product of our personal morals, our sense of right and wrong. However in nature there is no right or wrong, not on the scale or in the aspects that we consider it.
If such things ARE the cause of God, then we can argue that either God has a different set of morals than most of us, or that he has no morals at all, or that he simply is a wicked creature, not the benevolent deity some religions make him out to be.
I cannot see any other basis for a discussion on such a topic than these two options. Either God doesn't exist, and so there is no evil other than what we create by opposing our moral standards, or he does exist as purported, however he is not moral, or he is simply a wicked creature.
as for the believe on faith alone thing.... similar to the "can history be proven" thread... a christian might suggest that the bible is proof enough... and others may say that it would be enough if you prove that it is true. unless you were present at the moment in question when there were no video cameras were present and/or no dna traces left etc then how would you "know" that anything did in fact happen the way it was told.... similar events to what are related to you may have happened and what was specifically told to you that happened may not have happened as described.
if all we're left with is a book with which we cannot verify much if any of it...and someone is skeptical and won't acknowledge that there is even a tiny sliver of truth with in the pages then I would think the only thing left to tell that person is that you're going to have to have faith that it happened.
some people see improbabilities such as tumors ,that were expected to grow and kill an individual, disappearing w/o reason as miracles that only a power beyond their comprehension would have to the ability to fix.
others will just say that it happened and that the person is just very lucky and maybe that we just don't understand the science behind why the tumor died.
and i don't know why the horrible atrocities that happen that are on the opposite side of the spectrum from supposed miracles occur... unless of course there is a "spectrum" of possibility that would include both beneficial and negative happenings that are either natural happenings or divinely inspired.
Where does evil come from? Are events that we consider bad even evil? What does evil mean? The whole idea of evil and good is merely relative. Is disease evil? Does it have a conscious of its own to suggest it actually carried out such evil deeds? The term evil itself seems to imply that an object can consciously control its deeds.
So are disasters evil? Would you consider Mother Nature to be evil in that case? Are such natural occurrences merely....events? Events in nature that we as simple humans can attempt to prevent, but not stop entirely from happening?
I would contend that there is no evil other than human evil. Evil is a by-product of our personal morals, our sense of right and wrong. However in nature there is no right or wrong, not on the scale or in the aspects that we consider it.
I tend to follow Walker's viewpoint. Evil is something we as humans have conjured up as a notion over the ages. Human sacrifice to most of us is a detestable evil, but to the ancient Meso Americans, it was an inherent part of their culture. Can we say that based on our own judgement, others from a different background are evil? Won't that be a little biased and arrogant?
Is our morality even moral? Who has to say that killing is an evil? Who has the authority to state so conclusively? After all killing was a necessary primitive instincts our ancestors practiced, who has the power and judgement to declare it evil? In effect our own morals are constructed by ourselves, meaning to say we have over the eons slowly decided to place certain actions into the category of evil, and some in the category of good.
There is no source of evil, except in the prisons and constrains of our minds, where morality binds us.
That's where I wanted to go with my questions on bottom of page 6. Evil is something we create. But, I'll have more to say later, I brought some books to work!
So, I'm not a Christian, but because the OP asked for an explanation, I'll try to give one. Mmh, better two: 1. Many people said tornados as an example of evil. Well, if there is a flood and thousands of ants die, it is evil? No, no survived ant is going to cry, the death of those ants maybe will select the ants which are more intelligent and can make better refuges and survive the next floods. This is not evil. The ants in general learnt a lot from this sacrifice. Only with human-like intelligence (I said ants because some scientists thinks many animals have a bit) we think about the single individual and consider many dies "evil". Note that this explanation only works if you're an atheist, because if god created us he wouldn't give us individual-focused intelligence. 2.this one is for Christians, or religious people in general. I don't know if you know something about zen buddhism, but the zen masters try to help their disciples to achieve enlightenment (hope it's translated this way). And often to help them he beat them, because physical pain helps the mind to separate from the body. So, maybe God is a kind of zen master, and with "evil" he helps us to achieve enlightenment and prepare us to heaven. Who knows, maybe heaven would be boring for un enlightened people. All the day contemplating God's presence... PS this is almost my first post in the WEPR, mainly because of my language problems. I hope I didn't make bad mistakes this time.
Note that this explanation only works if you're an atheist, because if god created us he wouldn't give us individual-focused intelligence.
I question the boldness of this assumption.
No, no survived ant is going to cry, the death of those ants maybe will select the ants which are more intelligent and can make better refuges and survive the next floods. This is not evil. The ants in general learnt a lot from this sacrifice.
This too. Scientists have not actually done research that states ants do not feel emotion.
Well, you're right. The first sentence looks really dumb that way. I was meaning: if my assumption is true and if Individual focused intelligence is really just a pain for evolution, then why should god give us? (hope this will make more sense) About the second thing, I chose ants because they were the simplest form of life that I thought about. It was an example of the mere life without any form of consciousness or feeling. Actually Bacteria would make a better example.
About the second thing, I chose ants because they were the simplest form of life that I thought about. It was an example of the mere life without any form of consciousness or feeling. Actually Bacteria would make a better example.
Well, if you wanted a visible animal, mollusks are way down the list. Scientists have a rough gauge on the intelligence or rather brain functions of animals.
if my assumption is true and if Individual focused intelligence is really just a pain for evolution, then why should god give us?
I mean, if the only goal of life is to spread your DNA as far as possible, It's better to have a great sense of duty for your species than to keep whining about your own life and your own happiness.
I mean, if the only goal of life is to spread your DNA as far as possible, It's better to have a great sense of duty for your species than to keep whining about your own life and your own happiness.
Wait...how is this correlated to the source of evil? O_o Big question mark here.
