I have been sick since yesterday, stuck in bed all day yesterday, and have only managed to reach my computer do to the help of modern medicine. So now it is a proper time for the "Whence Commith Evil?" thread.
So were does "evil" come from? And I am not speaking for human evil, I am speaking for natural disasters, sickness, and other things that are "evil" but not caused by humans. Why would your god create that? And if it wasn't your god who created it, who was it? And why doesn't your god simply stop it? And if your god is for some reason unable to stop disease, then why can modern medicine stop what your god can't? And if your god causes it, then why can modern medicine stop it? Is medicine more powerful than your god?
Actually, evil comes from a decision the first person (Adam) made because he chose to eat the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil (technically, it was Eve, but that's beside the point). God made the tree because in order to be perfect, He had to give His creation free will and choice. (Yes, I'm Christian.)
Okay... here's how it works. God is perfect. Therefore, He had to give His creations free will. The serpent was Satan, who was an angel who rebelled against God and was promptly thrown out of Heaven. Satan tricked Eve, who CHOSE to believe him, into eating the fruit. God gave His creations free will, and we CHOSE to mess up. He is able, and willing, which is why He sent His son to live a perfect life, die on the cross, and then rise from the dead on the third day. Therefore, God is willing to forgive us because He sacrificed His Son to save us. He is able, and willing. We, as people, are able, but not willing. Therefore, evil is caused 100% by people's choices, not by God's choices.
@wafflesquad. Christ could see into the future when at the last supper he said that Judas would have killed him so why god could not foresee that eve would choose to believe Satan? And where is Judas' free will? I probably messed up the hypothetical periods. Sorry, I'm not English.
Okay... here's how it works. God is perfect. Therefore, He had to give His creations free will. The serpent was Satan, who was an angel who rebelled against God and was promptly thrown out of Heaven. Satan tricked Eve, who CHOSE to believe him, into eating the fruit. God gave His creations free will, and we CHOSE to mess up. He is able, and willing, which is why He sent His son to live a perfect life, die on the cross, and then rise from the dead on the third day. Therefore, God is willing to forgive us because He sacrificed His Son to save us. He is able, and willing. We, as people, are able, but not willing. Therefore, evil is caused 100% by people's choices, not by God's choices.
God made satan to what he is. God put that tree there, god made the fruit, god created temptation. Free will is bull****, we are able to decide between stuff but we are so influenced by our childhood that I consider 100% free will as non-existing. But even if there were complete free will, if he loves us why does he allow that people that did not choose to do evil, are prey to people that did choose to do evil? Why does he at least not protect those that stay true to him?
all of this => god is the source of everything including evil.
But that's all from the christian side.. my side says evil does come from people, true.. evil is a subjective thoughts construct that each individual superposes with everything on this world to try to classify deeds and stuff.
How do you come to that conclusion? If what we have in the Bible really is accurately portrayed, this God is a narcissistic bumbling idiot who can't seem to get the job done right.
Therefore, He had to give His creations free will.
Yet he seemed according to how these stories go forgot to give those creations good judgment to responsibly use that free will. Another problem with this is God screws with free will all the time in the Bible.
The serpent was Satan, who was an angel who rebelled against God and was promptly thrown out of Heaven.
So he put Satan in with his easily persuaded creations, or at least allowed him to be there? What an idiot.
Satan tricked Eve, who CHOSE to believe him, into eating the fruit. God gave His creations free will, and we CHOSE to mess up.
First off, why make it all so easily accessible? If he had to for some unfathomable reason stick these trees down there why not put up deterrents between it and the people he made? Don't put it smack in the middle of everything where they are sure to run into it. That would be common frickin sense!
He barred them from Eden to prevent them from eating from the other tree, so clearly preventing them from eating in the first place wouldn't have been an issues with free will.
He is able, and willing, which is why He sent His son to live a perfect life, die on the cross, and then rise from the dead on the third day. Therefore, God is willing to forgive us because He sacrificed His Son to save us.
This perfect God of yours required a human sacrifice of an innocent person in order to say your forgiven? That doesn't make him good or perfect, that makes him a monster.
We, as people, are able, but not willing. Therefore, evil is caused 100% by people's choices, not by God's choices.
Yeah because things like mass genocide, torture, infanticide, and animal cruelty isn't evil when God does it.
Okay, are you going to flame my religion or are you just being devil's advocate? Let me explain it this way: I have faith in my religion, and you're flaming me for that, so unless you're flaming every religion in the world, I'd like you to stop.
PS: Guess what? I'm a person, if you want to know what I was trying to say then you can read a Bible. If you don't care about what I was saying, then don't flame me.
Okay, are you going to flame my religion or are you just being devil's advocate? Let me explain it this way: I have faith in my religion, and you're flaming me for that, so unless you're flaming every religion in the world, I'd like you to stop.
PS: Guess what? I'm a person, if you want to know what I was trying to say then you can read a Bible. If you don't care about what I was saying, then don't flame me.
Wafflesquad, Mage is not flaming you--he is providing criticism to the religion, albeit blunt ones, but criticism nonetheless. If it was flaming, he would be saying something much heavier than "your religion is rubbish" and "your a lunkhead for believing it". All he was doing was providing conflicting arguments towards the questionable methods of God. Nothing too nasty, though it would be nice if he made his posts lighter when doing so >_>
Okay, are you going to flame my religion or are you just being devil's advocate? Let me explain it this way: I have faith in my religion, and you're flaming me for that, so unless you're flaming every religion in the world, I'd like you to stop.
It wasn't an attack on you so I wasn't flaming you. The comments were directed at the religion. Your claim is God is perfect, I don't see it. What I do see in the Bible is this God doing things that if it was anyone else would be considered unbelievably evil.
