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Forums → WEPR → U.S. House of Representatives Passes Bill to Repeal the New Healthcare Law

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Maverick4
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Maverick4
6,800 posts
Peasant

On Wednesday, January 19th, the house voted 245-189 (all Republicans, and 3 Democrats) to repeal the Healthcare Law. I was curious as to what AG's response would be to this.

Some sources:

The Hill

The Huffington Post

FOX News

CNN

  • 157 Replies
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

But think of that as healthcare. You should not be forced to pay those $200 for a service that costs $100.


Yet you support health care?

The reason businesses are able to raise the costs of medicine so much is because many of them have monopolies on certain areas of medicine. The FDA, designed to keep us safe, helps keep these monopolized businesses on top and over charging.

Remember, American health care is not Free Market Health Care. Health care in America has had a lot of government tampering.
Kevin4762
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Kevin4762
2,420 posts
Nomad

Actually, one of the biggest complains is that the upper class makes up too small a portion of the population in America.


When there is a large working class and a small middle class and upper class, there is a problem. I want 2a, 5b, and 2c, not 1a, 2a, and 6c.

Anyway, what you said about the rich man having no incentive to help the poor is partially true. Understand that many rich people do donate a lot money without making any profit in return. Sometimes the amount they donate is only a small percentage of what they own, but they still donate a lot more money than what anyone in the middle class can and does offer.


They only donate it because of high taxes. Bill Gates recently donated two-thirds of his capital to a non profit organization (I forgot which). The taxes would be much more than that. That could just be an ulterior motive.

But let's say someone who is rich decides not to help the poor at all. That's his decision and his money. Him not helping the poor does not harm the poor in any way. In fact, the best way to help the poor is to give them jobs. If you can't provide the poor with jobs, then all they can do is take and take.


I understand, but there is a vicious cycle. Many poor people have families, and their minimum wage cannot provide for a family. When they have a death in the family, they have to spend all of their savings on healthcare. The least you could do is make it easier on them by helping them through that by just paying $1 000 to $ 3 000 more on your taxes yearly.

I have no empathy for the poor who choose not to work and don't even try to find a job. Others probably do. Because we have different opinions, we should be allowed to choose who we help with out money (if we decide to even do so) rather than someone tell us who to help.


You mean sympathy? Empathy is like putting yourself in someone else's shoes. There are some downsides, such as people who do not work will be sharing your capital, but think of all the good you'll be doing other people.

Like I said, maybe I want to spend that money on myself, my family, my friends, my co-workers, my pets, or someone else who gains no aid from the government but needs it?


I agree with you, but at least you won't have to pay for their healthcare. The worst thing that could happen to you, in my opinion, is the loss of someone you love and care for. Besides, it is not like they will tax all the money you earn, but a small percentage. If you know how to handle money, you can still pay your taxes, live comfortably, and spend that money on your family and friends.
Yet you support health care?

The reason businesses are able to raise the costs of medicine so much is because many of them have monopolies on certain areas of medicine. The FDA, designed to keep us safe, helps keep these monopolized businesses on top and over charging.

Remember, American health care is not Free Market Health Care. Health care in America has had a lot of government tampering.


I support government funded healthcare. That means you spend $101 for a service that costs $100.

Every single business in the US is regulated and "tampered with" by the government. Healthcare should have tougher regulations.
skarl
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skarl
250 posts
Nomad

[quote]funny thing: if I post a post about the dutch health care system noname doesn't react.
did you miss it, or did jou just not have an answer?

How much are you paying in taxes?[/quote]

sorry for the late reaction.

actually, only 6% BTW. (things you buy are more expensive because the government needs the money to keep the tariff walls up.)

that's the 'not working because under 18' situation.

in my country, you pay more taxes if you make more money. it goes from 0% (if you make not more money than the minimum wage) and if you get more, you have to pay 10% or so over what you get more, (so NOT over that minimum wage,) and than over every bit a little more, till you get so much money that the last part is 52% taxes. but you have to make really much money for that.

like: you get 400.000 euro's a year. (to get to the 52%. most must take a zero of from this earn.)

dunno what the minimum wage is, but take that it is 5000 a year. you don't have to pay for that.

from the next part, let's say, 10.000 euro's, you get 5% off.

from the next: (20.000) 12%

and so on: around the 200.000 it is 52% I think.
and this is only the income tax. you have to pay a tax if you have a car, (for road repair.) you have to pay a tax if you have a dog. (NOT if you have a cat, maybe this comes from the dog as a guard.)
you have to pay some money for everything you get from the government. but: schools are free (until secundary school, after that you get a bursary, more if your parents are poor.), social laws, you get money if you get children, and so on.

if you need something for your job (laptop, for example,) you buy it, and you don't have to pay that amount of the taxes. (if the laptop costs 300 euro's, you have to pay 300 euro's less on taxes.)

it's complicated. richer people take accountant for the tax return. less rich people sometimes take a day off.

IT WORKS
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
Shepherd

IT WORKS


I don't know much about the Dutch system and I'll get back to this topic when and if I look more into it.

You mean sympathy?


Yeah, my bad.

but think of all the good you'll be doing other people.


This is a loaded response.

The least you could do is make it easier on them by helping them through that by just paying $1 000 to $ 3 000 more on your taxes yearly.


Yet health care will raise taxes, hmm.

Let's see, unemployment is is around 9-10% nationally, higher in some areas. Throw in the bad housing market, the poor loan conditions and the other nonsense that came about because CEOs (500-100x salary of base workers) decided to play fast and loose with other people's money.


How much the CEO makes does not effect the housing market, loan conditions, and so on. Remember, the value of money is not set in stone. Supply and demand determines the value of your dollar.

And what about CEOs taking ridiculous risks with a company's money? In a free market, anyone irresponsible enough to take such risks will often lose their money and go out of business or lose much of it. This does lead to unemployment BUT it also allows other to hire the unemployed.

If you allow the government to prevent CEOs from taking such risks, then you're allowing those CEOs to have a steady flow of money coming in. Basically, you're making it impossible for the rich to become poor, at least in theory. Regardless of what really happens, if the government backs a business up, they will make sure the business does not fail. This means they will put smaller companies out of business who pose as a possible threat of taking away their customers!

Okay, then what about bail outs? Bail outs allow big businesses to take more risks KNOWING they will be bailed out. Business owners take risks, and yes, those businesses will fail and people will lose their jobs if they are not bailed out. However, if you bail that business out, they will continue to take ridiculous risks.

This is my question, should a business ever become big enough so that it is "too big to fail?"

What about small businesses? You can't tell me you want more protection for big businesses while claiming we need more small businesses. The only way a small business can become big is if the government doesn't support a company that wants to push them out of the market!

The reason for the income tax is so everyone pays an equal share. The people who make over $200,000 actually pay fewer taxes.
Makes over $200,000 yet pays zero taxes


Have you ever looked into bar stool economics?

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

* The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
* The fifth would pay $1.
* The sixth would pay $3.
* The seventh would pay $7.
* The eighth would pay $12.
* The ninth would pay $18.
* The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good customers", he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men - the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his "fair share?"

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:

* The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
* The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
* The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
* The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
* The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
* The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times more than I!" "That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison. "We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, boys and girls, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.

Professor of Economics, University of Georgia


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Einfach
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Einfach
1,448 posts
Nomad

In a free market, anyone irresponsible enough to take such risks will often lose their money and go out of business or lose much of it.


To add to this argument, if they do make a profit, then it is by this "virtue" of helping others that they make a profit. They only profit if they help other people.
skarl
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skarl
250 posts
Nomad

Let's see, unemployment is is around 9-10% nationally, higher in some areas. Throw in the bad housing market, the poor loan conditions and the other nonsense that came about because CEOs (500-100x salary of base workers) decided to play fast and loose with other people's money.


wow, 9%! that's much! in wich country do you live???

if it is america: well, then this proves at least that cheap healthcare and social laws don't make a higher unemployment: in most european countries it's around 4%. (not including greece, of course. )

I know what you will say, that greece implodes because of to low taxes and to much money spent on the eldery, and a age where you are part of the eldery wich was to low. true. this is why you have to keep an eye on it.
Maverick4
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Maverick4
6,800 posts
Peasant

UPDATE:

A Florida Judge has ruled the Healthcare Bill Unconstitutional, more specifically, the mandate requiring all people to buy healthcare. What's likely to happen is that this will be carried on to the Supreme Court.

None of the major news networks have any articles online, so you'll have to make due with these:

Blogs.Forbes.com

LegalInsurection.com

Again, I apologize for the links. Something tells me most people wouldn't be too happy if I put 'The Blaze' up here. :/

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