It's funny how your almost never born atheist, you become atheist. I personally think the whole religion thing is far fetched. Why cant we just be dead after we die? Why does there HAVE to be an afterlife? Dont get me wrong i respect others decisions, I just don't believe in it, who's with me? I'm going to be some grass fertilizer one day And home to some maggots + worms.
Besides it's not like God said not to eat the fruit just because
It kind of sounds like that to me...
After eating the fruit something bad happened. It's like the speed limit law. Most people think it's there just because, but it's not. 30 is the limit because a kid hit at 40 has a 80% chance of death. At 30 they have a 70% chance of life.
Actually, it is more like teasing a kid with a lollipop and then beating him to death when he eats it
Really? I always viewed it as an adult saying to a child that doesn't know any better, "You can do anything you want, except that tree, right there, you see it? Yeah, don't touch that, ANYTHING but that tree over there, yep, that one right there, just don't touch it because you aren't allowed to." What do you expect to happen? Adam/Eve were w/o knowledge (supposedly) how were they ever even SUPPOSED to be able to follow that? Might as well tell a baby not to put that piece of candy in it's mouth.
Adam/Eve were w/o knowledge (supposedly) how were they ever even SUPPOSED to be able to follow that? Might as well tell a baby not to put that piece of candy in it's mouth.
Precisely. Situations like this are why I think that, if there is indeed a God, and it is the God of the Bible, then it is the most immoral and hateful creature I could imagine. Seriously, as a parent I could never imagine myself tempting my child, who doesn't know any better, with something that they cannot have but most certainly would want, and then punish them. It is, as you say, akin to leaving a candy there in front of a toddler and telling them not to touch, and then killing them if they touch it. Seriously, how sick can you be to think that this would in anyway amount to a loving parent?
Precisely. Situations like this are why I think that, if there is indeed a God, and it is the God of the Bible, then it is the most immoral and hateful creature I could imagine. Seriously, as a parent I could never imagine myself tempting my child, who doesn't know any better, with something that they cannot have but most certainly would want, and then punish them. It is, as you say, akin to leaving a candy there in front of a toddler and telling them not to touch, and then killing them if they touch it. Seriously, how sick can you be to think that this would in anyway amount to a loving parent?
well jebus probably got bored (if he lived before time then he must have ALOT of time on his hands) and ran an experiment, like burning ants with a magnifying glass
Did Adam and Eve die? Besides it's not like God said not to eat the fruit just because. After eating the fruit something bad happened.
He said the day they ate the fruit they would die, which they did not. Instead God got pissy and layed all sorts of punishments on them and kicked them out of Eden to prevent them from also eating from the tree of life which would allow them to live forever becoming like "them" (singular God using a plural?).
Really? I always viewed it as an adult saying to a child that doesn't know any better, "You can do anything you want, except that tree, right there, you see it? Yeah, don't touch that, ANYTHING but that tree over there, yep, that one right there, just don't touch it because you aren't allowed to." What do you expect to happen?
Not to mention leaving a baby sitter who says "sure you can touch that tree".
What? no of course not. If anything a person with mental disabilitysshould go to heaven without question. What sin could they commit. they might not have even understood what they did was wrong.
Nearly everyone has a mental disability. There is a very common problem where people live out their live under the misconception that they are sane.
1. if we were all mentaly disabled our species would be slaughtered by other animals and we wouldn't have free will.
So people with mental disabilities have no free will then. Anyway whats the difference between thinking we have free will and having free will. There is the same result. So we would be killed by animals.
2. Adam and Eve knew it was wrong. God Specificly told them so. Besides it's a story of how they thought the first people were made. it's not a commpleatly accurate historical lesson. the point is to get the moral.
But god knew they'd eat the apple so it was his fault for making the tree.
Did Adam and Eve die? Besides it's not like God said not to eat the fruit just because. After eating the fruit something bad happened. It's like the speed limit law. Most people think it's there just because, but it's not. 30 is the limit because a kid hit at 40 has a 80% chance of death. At 30 they have a 70% chance of life.
Yes, of course they did. Adam and Eve died like every one else. And God killed them by taking away their immortality. And they didn't have the knowledge to understand what God told them so all he really said was it is a bad thing to eat the fruit.
There is a very common problem where people live out their live under the misconception that they are sane.
*Dinner bell for the trolls* Obviously, it's called religion!
Anyway whats the difference between thinking we have free will and having free will.
Free will = You have options that don't result in this or eternal punishment.
If I told you to jump off a cliff, or I shoot you, that's not really free will, as either way you die. However, if I asked you if you wanted to be a doctor or a pilot, that's free will. It's not free will when there's only one other option and it's no option at all.
The point being made, Kasic, is that we would not really know the difference between the illusion of freedom of choice and the actual freedom itself. The effect is so similar that the reality and the illusion are nearly indistinguishable.
Nearly everyone has a mental disability. There is a very common problem where people live out their live under the misconception that they are sane.
Really? Where did you get that from?
*Dinner bell for the trolls* Obviously, it's called religion!
I got it from terry pratchett's discworld, I don't remember the book. And no it's an extremely dangerous disease. It affects nearly every mind and many people live out their live not knowing they have it. The people who have broken free from it are labelled as insane, we live in a sad, sad society.
Anyway whats the difference between thinking we have free will and having free will.
Maybe there isn't a difference. O.o
It was a rhetorical question. And the answer is that there is none.
Free will = You have options that don't result in this or eternal punishment.
If I told you to jump off a cliff, or I shoot you, that's not really free will, as either way you die. However, if I asked you if you wanted to be a doctor or a pilot, that's free will. It's not free will when there's only one other option and it's no option at all.
No but since God knows what we would do IF we had free will he makes us do them and there is no difference. And it could be that we can choose whatever decision we want but he knows which one we'll choose.
No but since God knows what we would do IF we had free will he makes us do them and there is no difference. And it could be that we can choose whatever decision we want but he knows which one we'll choose.
Even if he does know what we'll choose, that doesn't mean we don't have free will. If you know someone well, and you go to a restraunt, even if you know what they are going to order doesn't mean they didn't have a choice in it. The percieved/real is harder, but if you have the illusion of free will, it's the same for the person as having real free will, but not in the overall grand scheme of things (if there is one).
Even if he does know what we'll choose, that doesn't mean we don't have free will. If you know someone well, and you go to a restraunt, even if you know what they are going to order doesn't mean they didn't have a choice in it. The percieved/real is harder, but if you have the illusion of free will, it's the same for the person as having real free will, but not in the overall grand scheme of things (if there is one).
What is the difference? And there's a difference between knowing someone well and knowing everything about someone and exactly how their mind works.
And there's a difference between knowing someone well and knowing everything about someone and exactly how their mind works.
True, but that doesn't apply because it doesn't affect free will. I could know that some guy is hiding the fact he's a serial killer, but that doesn't mean i can stop him.
True, but that doesn't apply because it doesn't affect free will. I could know that some guy is hiding the fact he's a serial killer, but that doesn't mean i can stop him.
Yes you can. Just find the evidence and take it to court. But anyway it does apply because this way it is the same as having free will. If someone knows what you will do making you do it and letting you do it achieve exactly the same conclusion.
Even if he does know what we'll choose, that doesn't mean we don't have free will. If you know someone well, and you go to a restraunt, even if you know what they are going to order doesn't mean they didn't have a choice in it. The percieved/real is harder, but if you have the illusion of free will, it's the same for the person as having real free will, but not in the overall grand scheme of things (if there is one).
That a nice argument if you didn't keep in mind that God is omnipotent and harder or easy shouldn't be different to him.
