And sometimes it's to win a bet...
Well, my bet/gamble worked. At least we've started something resembling reasonable debate
First, to admit the points where my facts were genuinely wrong, or that I failed to address in some other way:
You caught me on the number of Roman Catholic priests who were involved in pedophilia. Although I specifically said "...that I remember", I should have done more research on that before using it in an argument. My bad.
At this moment, I do not have a counter for Lot. It is my belief that God allows bad things to happen because the suffering of and adaptation to those bad things teaches us humans something we need to know. My interpretation of that would seem to support your statement that God was just...
screwing with Lot just to win a bet with the Devil
. However, I have a couple of half-formed ideas to address that point, so if you can be patient, I'd love to continue that line of thought.
Moving on...
On the subject of "tests"...
We have to again ignore how a test (16:4 In this way I will test them and see whether they will follow my instructions.) by an all knowing being is completely pointless since he would already know the results.
God has never tested anyone because God doesn't know what will happen. The entire purpose of these various "tests" was to teach the humans involved something they needed to know. Furthermore, God doesn't actually have to "do" anything-simple human failure is more than enough explanation for the
Let's not forget kill us in genocidal and often painful ways, lying to us, setting us up to fail, and everyone's favorite eternal torment and suffering.
.
Unless I'm completely misreading your text, I'm detecting a fair amount of personal suffering at the hands of "God-fearing folk" on your end. I'd like some confirmation of that (a simple yes or no is sufficient) because I rarely meet anyone who has a legitimate grievance against us Christians, and that kind of complaint has put me in my place more than once.
But we're getting off topic, so...
My point is, human failures like greed and anger and simple incompetence are more than enough to inflict massive suffering on others. I severely doubt that, say, the Roman salting of Carthage was divinely influenced by God or Satan. That begs the question of why the Bible lists such tragedies as divinely influenced, especially the impersonal ones like the Great Flood. My belief is that, once again, God did not actually cause that flood. He only warned Noah that it was coming, and he even told Noah to go and tell everyone else to prepare for it. Needless to say, everyone ignored him, so Noah and his family survived while others did not.
A good modern parallel is the recent flooding in Thailand. A large number of the people who survived were people who had been victims of floods before, and knew how to save themselves from the worst effects. A number of people who died were people who were given advice from those who had survived previous floods, but blew them off for one reason or another. Simple human error and secular physical laws determined the rest. Did God send this flood to Thailand? No, he didn't.
However, there are quite a few odd occurrences in the Bible that I believe are divinely influenced. A good example is the parting of the Red Sea.
Exodus 14:21-"Then Moses stretched out his hand over the sea. The Lord drove the sea back by a strong east wind all night, and turned the sea into dry land; and the waves were parted."
This was actually explored in an episode of the Discovery Channel, and the physical theory is quite sound-the investigator used an industrial leaf blower to clear an inch of water off of a path of pebbles, and kept it clear for the duration of the blowing wind.
Give that, what purely secular, physical force can create enough tightly-controlled wind to part an entire sea's worth of water, down to the seafloor, keep it there for the duration of the Israelite crossing, and cease just as the Pharaoh's army is crossing, all w/o pulverizing the people in the area of effect and/or permanently damaging/destroying the landscape?
On the subject of that whole 40 years in the desert....
You haven't read far enough into that story. Keep going, and you'll see what I'm talking about when I say they told God to shove it.
On the subject of Jesus in the Temple...
This is one of those things that requires a deep, esoteric knowledge of the culture at the time. My own knowledge is a bit shaky, so you are free to investigate for yourself.
A large part of the crime I mentioned was the buying and selling of indulgences in the temple itself, as well as a number of related rule-twisting and shady dealings on the side.
Specifically, the priests and scribes basically made it a point to say "Our cows/chickens/sheep are better/more special than yours. Your sacrifice is not acceptable if you do not give the best possible, and lucky for you, we will sell you a cow/chicken/sheep for the low, low price of..."
In essence, it was a cripplingly effective exercise in snake oil salesmanship, backed up by "Holy Authority".
On the subject of Jesus' martyrdom...
Jesus' capture, trials, and execution were carried out in the space of around 24 hours. If you take the time to actually chart the events, it quickly amounts to a mind-boggling amount of effort and resources on the part of the high priests who rushed Jesus' execution through the red tape. These high priests had dealt with many "heretics" before; Jesus was obviously something special for them to go this far and fast.
Furthermore, you are correct; Jesus' sacrifice was unnecessary....
IF you assume he was purely human.
We Christians believe that Jesus' sacrifice was necessary on a divine level, because the human race is so badly tainted, so vile, that we, as a group, fully deserve any punishment that God chooses to visit upon us. The fact that he has not chosen to do so is because Jesus died on the cross for us, essentially telling God that we are worthy of His Love and Forgiveness.
This is not something entirely new, either. There are several other places in the Bible where
HUMANS told God the same thing. The difference with Jesus is that Jesus is the Son of God, of His own divine essence. Jesus' death on the cross should not have been necessary at all, but our human failure made it so if we humans were to have any chance at redemption and salvation.
THAT is why Jesus' crucifixion is considered the ultimate act of love. He could have easily escaped that death, but Jesus chose not to so that we humans might have a chance at Heaven.
