Wow this is insane at the Memphis Homeschool Convention( i went to it, it was fun) Peter Enns had a lecture about what the Bible is really about and he talked about how Adam and Noah were not to be taken literaly. Ken Ham owns the Answers In Genesis company and his whole premis is that Adam and Noah HAD to be true. In one of Ken Ham's lectures he mentioned that someone( no names )was selling non-biblical resourses. In the Greenville lecture Ken Ham mention Peter Enns name and show video clips of his lectures. KEN HAM WAS THROWN OUT OF THE CONFERENCE AND ALL OTHERS TO COME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THIS IS INSANE!!!!!!!!
Well I guess we can start this off by me saying to please give us some sources to this topic. I'm sure that there is something on this in the Memphis news, right? Give us any (good) sources that we can work with. All we, the debaters, have is your testimony.
I agree with Peter Enns about not taking Adam and Noah seriously, if not taking them into account at all. I disagree with Ken Ham about declaring Adam and Noah true. The stories surrounding Noah, the Ark driver, cannot be true, and the stories surrounding Adam, the Father of Man, definitely cannot be true.
Other than that, I will speak more when I get more sources :-)
I still wish to know the details of this story, Bonjovimen. I can't seem to find any scrap of it on Google. I can't figure out how much of this is credible until then.
Peter Enns had a lecture about what the Bible is really about and he talked about how Adam and Noah were not to be taken literaly.
Then this leaves the question of what original sin was Jesus dying for if the person who committed the sin didn't actually exist?
He created us to be with him and love him.
Then he shouldn't have been such a ...wait is that word * out here?
God told him to build the Ark, and he sent flood waters in and flooded the whole earth by his mighty power.
Seems like an unnecessarily cruel way of handling the issue. Could have magically gotten everyone to realize the error of their ways, thus being able to keep everyone alive (remember you said he could do anything). If death really was required (not sure why considering we have even physically impossible choices to work with here) but could have instead just had everyone slip into a comma and die in their sleep. Not only would it have been less cruel but it would have taken far less work then a massive magic flood using more water there there is on the entire planet, that left no geological evidence behind, required magic help to save the life of every animal, required magic to repopulate the entire planet so we see no genetic evidence of all life being reduced to such low numbers.
That link was good on the background of Ken Ham's controversies, mage, but it didn't really answer the question of exactly what happened that the OP described. I also found a link pertaining to the part of Ken Ham's being thrown out of a convention, but have no clue whether it is the same Memphis Convention that the OP mentions. It also says he was thrown out due to "sinful behavior", but we can always just dismiss that....
Also if we are to regard the Bible as accurate then God physically interacting and communicating with us is was no issue at all. It's interesting how the magic seems to stop just as soon as we gained the ability to verify the claims.
There's a difference between knowing and believing.
I could know God exists by his appearing to me and believe he loves me or not depending on that Gods actions and how he behaves.
If you believe that someone loves you, it is totally different from if you know someone loves you. It sort of makes it harder.
How does it make it harder? Does knowing the chair you sit in will support your weight make it harder for you to sit in it?
God wanted to know that we could love him no matter what, which means he won't present himself to us, even if he does present himself through us.
If God wants me to know he loves me no matter what then he should show himself to me so I have a some base reference to work off of. The way things are currently run I can't know anything based on faith of this nature.
Hey guys sorry im a bit late getting this out i forgot to mention that Peter Enns was selling a Bible curriculem to homeschoolers that didn't take Adam and Noah literaly I understand that some of you don't take Adam and Noah or the whole Bible into consideration. That's ok. I didn't make this post to argue over religion. I only made this to make people aware about this insanity (in my eyes) Also if you search around at Answers in Genisis's site you should be able to find some of this controversy. I do believe that the Bible is true, though. Wouldn't life just be miserable if there was no Heaven? Seriously? Also look at all the beauty around us. The Grand Canyon for instance. It isn't just a large ravine. It has other gourges running downhill into it.....how could simple rain water make this. If a worldwide flood was true, it is possible. Thanks for Reading this post. I'll check back later to this post.
do believe that the Bible is true, though. Wouldn't life just be miserable if there was no Heaven?
Quite the opposite, actually. Wouldn't your life be miserable if there was? Everything that you had done here on earth would be pointless, your whole life a waste. An idiotic test. A plaything of some deity. Everything you had done had not only been worthless, but it would have negative side effects. For example, feeding the poor without any heaven existing is prolonging a life, helping a human. But if there was a heaven, than you would be prolonging their torture of a test, rather than helping them at all, and it would be more human just to snap their neck, sending them to a magic party with a bearded middle easterner.
Also look at all the beauty around us.
*Looks* Soooo that worm eating out that guy's eye? The starving children? The kids with cancer? Strange since of beauty you have there.
The Grand Canyon for instance.
The Grand Canyon < Many of innocents dieing from natural and man made disasters in Japan.
It isn't just a large ravine
No. It is a really big ravine.
It isn't just a large ravine. It has other gourges running downhill into it.....how could simple rain water make this.
By millions of years of erosion. That tends to cause ravines.
If a worldwide flood was true, it is possible
Umm no. No it is not. Actually, a worldwide flood would have no effect at all on one canyon.
Thanks for Reading this post. I'll check back later to this post.
Thanks for stealing a few seconds of my valuable life...
Yeah, but then everyone would know that God existed. What's the point of faith if you can see?
You could still have faith about what he is supposed to have done and is doing, as well as having faith about whether he is as great as everybody says or not. Knowledge of his existence doesn't come together with knowledge of his entire being, so there'd be still room for faith.
'Cause the flying spaghetti monster is only a mascot.
I can say that about your god too. Who is right?
Honestly, can you prove to me that it was not Odin who caused this supposed flood?
I'm pretty sure it would have to be the Midgard Serpent, if anyone. After all it is laying all around Midgard in the ocean.
God will reward his children in heaven. That gives us chosen few something to look forward to. Btw what are we all trying to do here? I highly doubt that y'all are going to change your viewpoints by what i say....Likewise I will not change mine.......
