Forums → WEPR → Theism and Atheism
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I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
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Show me 100% evidence for the big bang theory - that it is indisputably correct, and i will admit you're right.
You cannot, I said this before:
"The "Big Bang" is a generally-accepted leap of faith also. We have no empirical evidence. No scientist piloted a spacecraft adjacent to the event and recorded what occurred every femtosecond. We have no proof correlating precisely to the incident; we only have proof that can somewhat accurately support the claim."
Nothing Christianity promotes can be accurately proven. Again, this argument is circular.
How do you know these things though? Where's the evidence? As soon as you affix these things in your mind as being definite and unquestionable then you lose the critical thinking part of yourself, even if it's just a little, hold nothing as being true based on faith alone.There is evidence... there are two pieces that I have found that hold strong ground for both.
1. Take the mona lisa.. Now I'm going to submit to you that the paint and the oils and whatever were just splattered on the canvas at a random time. Chances are that the Mona Lisa was not created like that. Now take the Mona Lisa or the Universe? what's more complex? obviously, the universe. So you're trying to submit to me that the Mona Lisa was created, the lesser complex, but the universe, the more complex, just sort of happened.. that doesn't do it for me. And there is no proof for the big bang either.
2. There are documents outside of biblical documents from Jesus' time saying that he existed, and preformed these miracles that are in the bible. Not one document was found that negates that from that time period. Hundreds of years later? of course, but those came way after the biblical documents.
I can show you evidence of the Big Bang - can you show me evidence of God?
I can show you evidence of the Big Bang - can you show me evidence of God?
Correction: you can show secondary evidence of the Big Bang.
You have no videotape or other recorded medium of the Big Bang because humanity was not around then. We only have a good presumption that the Big Bang actually occurred based on astronomical evidence after-the-fact.
I can show you evidence of the Big Bang - can you show me evidence of God?
You can show me provisional evidence*
It all depends on what you call evidence.
I watched a documentary, not yet released here - i watched it in Indonesia, and i'm going there on Thursday, so i'll ask my dad for the name - where a woman suffered with stigmata. Before it started, she went to church, received communion and when she opened her mouth there was literally flesh in place of the bread.
Now this was given to scientists (who speak in the video to confirm their findings) - they say that the video was in no way altered.
They then asked the woman to receive communion again with them as witnessed, checked her mouth beforehand to make sure there was nothing there & it happened again.
- People would consider that divine evidence - but provisional.
I'm looking through the interwebz for it.
I just did using logic. I'm not going to argue upon opinions. I've stated my bliefs many times over. You can choose to agree or disagree.
What i don't understand is why does someone have to be right?
We'll know when we know - when one proves itself.
I accept and respect those who believe in the big bang theory.
& I'd like to think they'd respect those who believe in God.
What i don't understand is why does someone have to be right?We don't, and that's why I don't try to prove my beliefs to anyone. I just state what I believe. If they like it, then great. If they don't, then that's OK too.
We'll know when we know - when one proves itself.
1: God created the universe and 2: Jesus Christ died to show sacrifice and absolve people from their sins.
You get both of these ideas from the bible. And if you chose to believe them, you chose to believe the entire bible. Thus, you must believe God created the universe in 6 days, and on the 7th day rested. And thus the universe is about 10,000 years old.
I can show you evidence of the Big Bang - can you show me evidence of God?
Spoken with true ignorance. You cannot show any evidence that shows the big bang happened without a reasonable doubt, and Christians cannot show you evidence that the bible is true, or even that Jesus Christ existed.
Have you read the Origin of Species? Do you understand what a singularity is supposed to be/do? Do you know the Laws of thermodynamics? Can you seriously believe that you are smarter than all the great thinkers and philosophers in the past? Do you think you have the ability to decide what is right and wrong?
What i don't understand is why does someone have to be right?
We'll know when we know - when one proves itself.
That is why this argument is pointless: those doubting religion will continue to doubt it and those doubting science will continue to doubt it. People's opinions here are so fundamental that they cannot see the "other side" without bias.
I accept and respect those who believe in the big bang theory.
& I'd like to think they'd respect those who believe in God.
That would be a perfect world. Unfortunately, though, people usually are not keen to having a moderate opinion about either science or religion as a guiding force of society. One invariably blames the other for "corrupting" society.
You get both of these ideas from the bible. And if you chose to believe them, you chose to believe the entire bible. Thus, you must believe God created the universe in 6 days, and on the 7th day rested. And thus the universe is about 10,000 years old.No, you don't have to believe the entire bible. That statement is ignorant. Were they spawned by the bible? yes, but there are many things about the bible that I find wrong, or I believe that they were put there by people, Not God.
No, you don't have to believe the entire bible. That statement is ignorant. Were they spawned by the bible? yes, but there are many things about the bible that I find wrong, or I believe that they were put there by people, Not God.
Moses wrote a majority of the Old Testament, including Genesis. Do you not believe what he writes? Or perhaps you are mormon, in which case trying to deter you from what you believe is a waste of time. You cannot consult individual chapters of the bible. The entire bible was written through men, over 30 different men, and to place your trust into only a few of those men by what they have written is just a naive thing to do.
And I take offense to your statement. It is in no way ignorant, and yet you call it such. As if I don't possess logic behind what I say. To assume that is a display of ignorance. Not that of which I have spoken.
No, you don't have to believe the entire bible. That statement is ignorant. Were they spawned by the bible? yes, but there are many things about the bible that I find wrong, or I believe that they were put there by people, Not God.
To answer this and the post below it:
Of course you don't have to believe everything the Bible says considering it's not literal and it was a different society. It states people were 600 years old. Do we have to believe this? No. Because we know it's more plausible they didn't have the time scale we have now, nor the calender we do.
Moses wrote a majority of the Old Testament, including Genesis. Do you not believe what he writes? Or perhaps you are mormon, in which case trying to deter you from what you believe is a waste of time. You cannot consult individual chapters of the bible. The entire bible was written through men, over 30 different men, and to place your trust into only a few of those men by what they have written is just a naive thing to do.You don't have to believe the entire bible. God is not within the bible, God lives outside the bible, you're putting God in a little box. The God I believe in is too big for your little box.
It states people were 600 years old. Do we have to believe this? No. Because we know it's more plausible they didn't have the time scale we have now, nor the calender we do.
I really don't know, because in the early stages of humanity, it has been proven that there was more Oxygen on the Earth, so this might have led to people living longer. Also, Simply because it says that, doesn't mean it's on our calendar.
You don't have to believe the entire bible. God is not within the bible, God lives outside the bible, you're putting God in a little box. The God I believe in is too big for your little box.
If you do not believe in God through the bible, you are talking about another religion entirely, and cannot claim to be a Christian. Perhaps you made this point earlier, but I didn't even attempt to skim over the 188 pages within this thread.
Of course you don't have to believe everything the Bible says considering it's not literal and it was a different society. It states people were 600 years old. Do we have to believe this? No. Because we know it's more plausible they didn't have the time scale we have now, nor the calender we do.
The bible isn't speaking metaphorically. People all over the world believe in what it says more than anything anyone other religion or scientist has to say. And somehow you convinced yourself that you have some better understanding of what to believe than all of those people. Would you claim to be smarter, more wise, and more understanding than every single one of them? Do all christians obviously ignore everything that detests religion? The answer is no. You are under the impression that Atheists seem to be more brilliant than everyone else on the world. That is, if you are atheist. If not, I would gladly discuss your religion with you.
To answer your statement about Genesis:
How do you know everyone didn't live to be over 800 years old? I will say that around 127 A.D., everyone suddenly started living only to be 70, rather than 700. What proof do you offer to counter this?
And to answer it again with another question:
Can you give me the date when a year started being a year? What was the exact date? Do you even know what kind of time system people used before "B.C." and "A.D."?
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