I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
If we are to consider this being as the one who made us he was the one who gave us this nature to begin with. The after this asks us to go against the very nature he gave? If so this God is an idiot.
technically, he didn't give us the nature of the basic man, we got it from adam and eve when they ate the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. we inflicted it upon ourselves, and god is giving us a way to combat it.
This has also been presented before. The opponents of this idea notion that, since God created the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil (and made it pretty conspicuous and accessible), he "gave us this nature to begin with".
This has also been presented before. The opponents of this idea notion that, since God created the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil (and made it pretty conspicuous and accessible), he "gave us this nature to begin with".
well, then. I am oficially convinced that it is impossible to sway them even a little. I will not change my belief, but I see no more reason to debate here. I leave you with a quote I heard once, maybe it will apply to you.
"He who tempts the wrath of god shall receive it in the final days."
What you want proof that this unnamed relative from Zimbabwe exists and I really will give you $100,000,000 before you grant me access to your bank account? Pitiful.
What you want proof I really own this bridge and can sell it to you before you hand over you money? Pitiful.
Taking it on faith, your just being gullible. That makes you the pitiful one.
Do you really believe that all that would be left of you after your death is some bones and flesh that would be eaten by worms? Pitiful.
All the other claims of yours are verifiable, so no accusation of gullibility can be made based on these.
Which would be pretty freaking easy if he just showed himself.
See, if God would show himself, you will be forced to believe, while nothing that's forced onto someone brings good to him.
well, then. I am oficially convinced that it is impossible to sway them even a little. I will not change my belief, but I see no more reason to debate here. I leave you with a quote I heard once, maybe it will apply to you.
Well, I have tried as well, for whole 40 days straight, debating here for over 150 pages through. And yes, they can't be swayed given that little time and no personal contacts. One woman was married to a man who went to a lot of prostitutes and other women, while she was left nearly alone. He lived aside her in a family, with children etc, but he wouldn't stop having sex outside. She prayed and suffered, and did whatever she could to make him stop, and finally he did, and he repented that behavior, but it took her THIRTY-EIGHT YEARS. How big is that week you have spent here, or how big is my ~6 weeks in front of this?
... ... ...Do you know what "forced" means? Him simply appearing to people isn't "forcing" people to believe in him.
I am oficially convinced that it is impossible to sway them even a little
Perhaps because you do not list anything that could be used as evidence or try to use logical arguments that might go toward proving the existence of God. Instead, all you do is explain away what we throw at you and regurgitate your beliefs at us.
Quite simply, this is not a debate. It's target practice. You do not shoot back so to speak.
Do you know what "forced" means? Him simply appearing to people isn't "forcing" people to believe in him.
Hehe. You're speaking about God, not a human. In case of God appearing, it will be a forced belief, because to not to believe will be a definite ****ation. You will just have no excuses to not to believe any more. This is what I call forced.
Quite simply, this is not a debate. It's target practice. You do not shoot back so to speak.
Please read pages 20 to 50 here, my debate with Einfach about whether it's possible to prove or disprove God's existence with logic. The conclusion that we agreed to is that God contradicts binary logic. So the thing you want us to do is plain impossible.
So the thing you want us to do is plain impossible.
And if something is plain impossible to prove...logically, it is probably not true...
In case of God appearing, it will be a forced belief, because to not to believe will be a definite ****ation.
It already IS definite ****ation according to you.
How about this. Someone asks if God is real, and asks if God could just show himself in some way to them. That is NOT going against free will as it is the person's request. And yet, this doesn't happen.
And if something is plain impossible to prove...logically, it is probably not true...
And if you will read my phrase fully... you will find out... that it's probably not false as well... wha, lockdown?
It already IS definite ****ation according to you.
Who is that "you"? Me? I might not be a good prophet, so the failure of my prophecy, that it did not turn your heart to God, might be my own guilt, even if I try and do my best. So if someone wants to show you God, and you do not believe him, it might be not just your guilt, because of which people say "you will burn in Hell", but theirs as well. MIGHT be, though, not WILL be. But in case God will say "Here I am", then not believing Him WILL be your guilt, without any alternatives.
How about this. Someone asks if God is real, and asks if God could just show himself in some way to them. That is NOT going against free will as it is the person's request. And yet, this doesn't happen.
I have already explained why God did not respoind with direct obedience. Perhaps that "some way" had happened, but it came past that person's notice, or that person wished for more than what happened, and ignored that sign from God. It's also possible that such a sign will happen somewhere later, not "right here right now" as many people imply in such requests. Also Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the whale, so will the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. The men of Nin'eveh will arise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and behold, something greater than Jonah is here." (Mt 12:39-41) This is also the answer to those seeking signs for their own amusement. God knows your hidden desires better than you, He also knows the outcomes of His possible actions or responses towards you, when you pray as such. I think, though, that if that person will sincerely seek for confirmation of God's existence, he will find it, in his own personal way. I also think you should try seeking Him yourself.
I have already explained why God did not respoind with direct obedience.
There are passages where it does state that asking for things is allowed and will be fulfilled. This dance around only comes from pure excuse making on the Christians part.
Perhaps that "some way" had happened, but it came past that person's notice, or that person wished for more than what happened, and ignored that sign from God.
That would make God a very poor communicator.
It's also possible that such a sign will happen somewhere later, not "right here right now" as many people imply in such requests.
That is why putting time specifics in such requests a good idea.
Also Jesus said "An evil and adulterous generation seeks for a sign; but no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
Bible thumping great...
I think, though, that if that person will sincerely seek for confirmation of God's existence, he will find it, in his own personal way.
Didn't your previous statement in your Bible thumping contradict that?
You don't think I haven't? You don't think that I would love to follow what's good and right, to be able to know for sure what path to follow? To know that by living a virtuous life I could go on to Heaven and what not? I have. Quite simply, I've never seen or felt anything that I could attribute to God. I've seen evil deeds and good deeds, forgetful and arrogant people, all types of things, but they were all caused by us or natural events.
Because religious people come in, regurgitate all over the thread, and then the people arguing against it scare them off withen a few pages because they have no answers. And this has continued for about half a year now.
There are passages where it does state that asking for things is allowed and will be fulfilled. This dance around only comes from pure excuse making on the Christians part.
Yes of course, but none of these say something about timely manner.
That is why putting time specifics in such requests a good idea.
See, putting time in such requests turn them into demands, while demanding something off God is illegal.
Didn't your previous statement in your Bible thumping contradict that?
No. Private revelations are pretty common, while public ones are not demanded for, and are not given at request. My previous quote from the Bible says about public signs, and actually Pharisees were asking about the same thing you are asking right now.
That would make God a very poor communicator.
That will make you a poor receiver.
Because religious people come in, regurgitate all over the thread, and then the people arguing against it scare them off withen a few pages because they have no answers. And this has continued for about half a year now.
You have to scare me off first, then say this.
You don't think I haven't? You don't think that I would love to follow what's good and right, to be able to know for sure what path to follow? To know that by living a virtuous life I could go on to Heaven and what not? I have. Quite simply, I've never seen or felt anything that I could attribute to God. I've seen evil deeds and good deeds, forgetful and arrogant people, all types of things, but they were all caused by us or natural events.
Hmm. You seem to seek answers in about the same form as MGW does, and you probably fail to get them for the same reasons - you want everything in an instant, while you have your whole life to develop self into being ready to face God. God uses smaller tools to do bigger deeds, maybe He will use you if you would make yourself small in terms of ambitions.
I'm just going to cover this one piece o bull. There are many ways that can be used that could get a message to me very clearly. If God doesn't use one of them then it's on him for failing to get the message across.
If all I can do is get email and someone tries to get me a message through a video chat knowing I can't do video chat but only email. Then get's mad that I didn't get their message. It's not my fault for not getting the message. This is basically what your claiming this God is doing.
