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thepyro222

2,150 posts

Peasant

Posted March 29, '11 5:11am UTC

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.\r\n     I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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HahiHa

8,256 posts

Regent

Posted March 16, '12 11:00pm UTC

1. doesn't matter, he was raised to be a christian, but he saw the truth of the world.

I think it's still important/interesting to realize that everyone is born atheist and most then get introduced to religion.

second, many people will tell you that you cant understand everything that god does and when looking for excuses you can come up with many logical things to explain the most stupid things. one could easily tell you that god doesnt meddle with our lives on earth anymore.

Since we do have descriptions and stuff like that of the christian deity, it is only intuitive and logical to think that what we see doesn't match what we're told about said deity.
Now of course people can tell you you don't understand it, but do they understand it? If they cannot either, who are they to tell you to go on believing, who are they to still state that god is good, if they cannot even explain it themselves?
It's just their own interpretation, their own set of beliefs, and they can tell you what they think, but they cannot tell you what is real, because no one knows. Therefore I see no problem with Beschuss following his own feelings.

[quote]1. doesn't matter, he was raised to be a christian, but he saw the truth of the world.[/quote]\r\nI think it's still important/interesting to realize that everyone is born atheist and most then get introduced to religion. \r\n\r\n[quote]second, many people will tell you that you cant understand everything that god does and when looking for excuses you can come up with many logical things to explain the most stupid things. one could easily tell you that god doesnt meddle with our lives on earth anymore. [/quote]\r\nSince we do have descriptions and stuff like that of the christian deity, it is only intuitive and logical to think that what we see doesn't match what we're told about said deity. \r\nNow of course people can tell you you don't understand it, but do [i]they [/i]understand it? If they cannot either, who are they to tell you to go on believing, who are they to still state that god is good, if they cannot even explain it themselves? \r\nIt's just their own interpretation, their own set of beliefs, and they can tell you what they think, but they cannot tell you what is real, because no one knows. Therefore I see no problem with Beschuss following his own feelings.

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted March 17, '12 6:20am UTC

In lieu of the upcoming Armor of God clan's planned event to be around this thread at 7pm central time...I'd like to establish some basic etiquette that everyone should follow in order to have this be as not crazy as possible.

- Select your entire post and copy it, then refresh the page before posting to make sure no one has posted while you were composing your message.

- Please try as much as possible to not respond to something which has already been responded to, unless you -seriously- feel that something was missing/explained/presented poorly and needs to be re-addressed.

- Please don't post short messages with little to no content backing your claims/assertions.

- I would like to suggest that, for the sake of clarity in what may well become a hailstorm of posts, each quote you tag with who it came from so as to avoid confusion and limit accusations of he/she said.

Of course, this is only in the event that a lot of people are active at one time. If there's not all that many around (Or no more so than usual anyways), just ignore this post

In lieu of the upcoming Armor of God clan's planned event to be around this thread at 7pm central time...I'd like to establish some basic etiquette that everyone should follow in order to have this be as not crazy as possible.\r\n\r\n- Select your entire post and copy it, then refresh the page before posting to make sure no one has posted while you were composing your message.\r\n\r\n- Please try as much as possible to not respond to something which has already been responded to, unless you -seriously- feel that something was missing/explained/presented poorly and needs to be re-addressed.\r\n\r\n- Please don't post short messages with little to no content backing your claims/assertions.\r\n\r\n- I would like to suggest that, for the sake of clarity in what may well become a hailstorm of posts, each quote you tag with who it came from so as to avoid confusion and limit accusations of he/she said. \r\n\r\nOf course, this is only in the event that a lot of people are active at one time. If there's not all that many around (Or no more so than usual anyways), just ignore this post :)

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nichodemus

14,991 posts

Grand Duke

Posted March 17, '12 6:22am UTC

I can't see how this ''Debate'' will turn out anything new, or be any different from what already happens. Hopefully, they'll surprise us this time....

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yz125

256 posts

Peasant

Posted March 17, '12 11:27am UTC

Thanks to our US amendment i think first , i have freedom of religon , but im atheist which is my religon not to belive in anything like god or jesus... But apart of me thinks jesus was real , but also crazy . lol first amendment

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nichodemus

14,991 posts

Grand Duke

Posted March 17, '12 11:37am UTC

but im atheist which is my religon not to belive in anything like god or jesus...

Atheism is a lack of religion; it is NOT a religion.

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sensanaty

1,094 posts

Nomad

Posted March 17, '12 1:36pm UTC

Thanks to our US amendment i think first , i have freedom of religon , but im atheist which is my religon not to belive in anything like god or jesus... But apart of me thinks jesus was real , but also crazy . lol first amendment

http://www.funnymotivationalposters.info/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Holy-Facepalm.jpg

1) Atheism is a lack of religion. Yea, wikipedia, deal with it.

2) Jesus Christ existed, but not necessarily with all the powers. Like walking on water and turning water into wine.

I can't see how this ''Debate'' will turn out anything new, or be any different from what already happens. Hopefully, they'll surprise us this time....

It won't. It's always the same people (well, the atheist side at least) Saying the same things, arguing the same way as always.

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nichodemus

14,991 posts

Grand Duke

Posted March 17, '12 1:40pm UTC

It won't. It's always the same people (well, the atheist side at least) Saying the same things, arguing the same way as always.

Oh don't count of me being unoriginal for this one!

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Avorne

3,085 posts

Nomad

Posted March 17, '12 1:50pm UTC

It won't. It's always the same people (well, the atheist side at least) Saying the same things, arguing the same way as always.

We wouldn't have to say the same things over and over again if religious people would stop putting forward the same outdated and stupid arguments forward over and over again.

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted March 17, '12 2:33pm UTC

Atheism is a lack of religion; it is NOT a religion.

It's the lack of belief in a deity. Some religions don't include a deity. So atheism isn't the lack of religion, though most atheists do lack religion.

But apart of me thinks jesus was real

While I don't rule out the possibility of a historical Jesus, I find it quite questionable that there was one. This is due to how we have no first hand historical accounts of this person, not even in regards to his execution which would have been recorded given who was carrying it out. Further more the stories in the Bible have clear similarities to fictional stories existing in that time.

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ShinyCowBeast

120 posts

Nomad

Posted March 17, '12 10:12pm UTC

I think it's still important/interesting to realize that everyone is born atheist and most then get introduced to religion.

...? lol. so if atheism is the belief that there is no God, why is a baby then born atheist, and not christian,when either way they are required to believe something?

it is only intuitive and logical to think that what we see doesn't match what we're told about said deity.

why?

Now of course people can tell you you don't understand it, but do they understand it? If they cannot either, who are they to tell you to go on believing, who are they to still state that god is good, if they cannot even explain it themselves?

can I get an example of a Christian that dsen't understand Christianity?

Atheism is a lack of religion; it is NOT a religion

I really hate to sound like a broken record here... a religon is a set of beliefs

While I don't rule out the possibility of a historical Jesus, I find it quite questionable that there was one. This is due to how we have no first hand historical accounts of this person,

the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who was not a Christian, wrote in 93-94 A.D.:

"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." Antiquities of the Jews, XVIII.iii.3
(link)

[quote]I think it's still important/interesting to realize that everyone is born atheist and most then get introduced to religion.[/quote]\r\n\r\n...? lol. so if atheism is the belief that there is no God, why is a baby then born atheist, and not christian,when either way they are required to believe something? \r\n\r\n[quote]it is only intuitive and logical to think that what we see doesn't match what we're told about said deity.[/quote]\r\n\r\nwhy?\r\n\r\n[quote]Now of course people can tell you you don't understand it, but do they understand it? If they cannot either, who are they to tell you to go on believing, who are they to still state that god is good, if they cannot even explain it themselves?[/quote]\r\n\r\ncan I get an example of a Christian that dsen't understand Christianity?\r\n\r\n[quote]Atheism is a lack of religion; it is NOT a religion[/quote]\r\n\r\nI really hate to sound like a broken record here... a religon is a set of beliefs\r\n\r\n[quote]While I don't rule out the possibility of a historical Jesus, I find it quite questionable that there was one. This is due to how we have no first hand historical accounts of this person,[/quote]\r\n\r\nthe Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who was not a Christian, wrote in 93-94 A.D.:\r\n\r\n"At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and [he] was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." Antiquities of the Jews, XVIII.iii.3 \r\n([url=http://www.gospeloutreach.net/whychristianity.html]link[/url])

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted March 17, '12 10:14pm UTC

so if atheism is the belief that there is no God, why is a baby then born atheist, and not christian,when either way they are required to believe something?

1) Atheism is the lack of belief in a God. Since a baby is not born believing in a god, it is an atheist. It holds no beleifs.

2) Atheism doesn't "believe" anything, it's a term for those who don't have a belief in a god.

why?

God is loving.

God commits multiple mass slaughters

= EXTREMELY inconsistent.

I really hate to sound like a broken record here... a religon is a set of beliefs

Right.

Except Atheism isn't a religion.

wrote in 93-94 A.D.:

And why is this the earliest we hear about him other than from the Bible?

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted March 17, '12 10:21pm UTC

...? lol. so if atheism is the belief that there is no God, why is a baby then born atheist, and not christian,when either way they are required to believe something?

Because atheism is lack of belief in a god, not a belief that there is no god.

why?

Because a magical man in the sky who decides everything and made the flat world who is omnibonevelent but murders people left and right only to torture them later, who forgives everyone but has to kill his son to be able to, who wants to end the world horribly and apparently has already done so but still apparently loves it, who is three people, but three separate people who are one person who are three people. Who hates sex and everything you do even though he made you like that in the first way. Nothing about a deity makes since.

can I get an example of a Christian that dsen't understand Christianity?

What sect are you? I am sure you would agree that someone does not share your beliefs? Westboro baptist. Mormon. Catholics. Really, since there are a thousands sects of Christianity, wouldn't that be "Anyone who is not the person saying this"? Every person seems to have their own Christianity.

I really hate to sound like a broken record here... a religon is a set of beliefs

Atheism isn't a religion.

the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who was not a Christian, wrote in 93-94 A.D.:

The extant copies of this work, which all derive from Christian sources (even the recently-recovered Arabic version), contain two disputed passages about Jesus. The long one has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum.

Basically he didn't write that part. He got it from Christians. If it is even genuine.

[quote]...? lol. so if atheism is the belief that there is no God, why is a baby then born atheist, and not christian,when either way they are required to believe something? [/quote]\r\n\r\nBecause atheism is lack of belief in a god, not a belief that there is no god. \r\n\r\n[quote]why?[/quote]\r\n\r\nBecause a magical man in the sky who decides everything and made the flat world who is omnibonevelent but murders people left and right only to torture them later, who forgives everyone but has to kill his son to be able to, who wants to end the world horribly and apparently has already done so but still apparently loves it, who is three people, but three separate people who are one person who are three people. Who hates sex and everything you do even though he made you like that in the first way. Nothing about a deity makes since. \r\n\r\n[quote]can I get an example of a Christian that dsen't understand Christianity?[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhat sect are you? I am sure you would agree that someone does not share your beliefs? Westboro baptist. Mormon. Catholics. Really, since there are a thousands sects of Christianity, wouldn't that be "Anyone who is not the person saying this"? Every person seems to have their own Christianity. \r\n\r\n[quote]I really hate to sound like a broken record here... a religon is a set of beliefs[/quote]\r\n\r\nAtheism isn't a religion. \r\n\r\n[quote]the Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, who was not a Christian, wrote in 93-94 A.D.:[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe extant copies of this work, which all derive from Christian sources (even the recently-recovered Arabic version), contain two disputed passages about Jesus. The long one has come to be known as the Testimonium Flavianum. \r\n\r\nBasically he didn't write that part. He got it from Christians. If it is even genuine.

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HahiHa

8,256 posts

Regent

Posted March 17, '12 10:26pm UTC

The other points have already been addressed sufficiently, but I want to add to this here, because you misunderstood me:

can I get an example of a Christian that dsen't understand Christianity?

I'm not talking about understanding christianity. I'm talking about understanding god's motives. Noone is supposed to understand god's motives, thus you can only share opinions, but not propagate 'the truth' because there's no reason (even as a christian) to believe that a mere human knows that.

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ShinyCowBeast

120 posts

Nomad

Posted March 17, '12 11:01pm UTC

God is loving.
God commits multiple mass slaughters
= EXTREMELY inconsistent.

1. A father loves his child.
2. A father sees his child doing something wrong.
3. A father punishes the child, so that the child does not do the wrong thing that it was doing again.
4. A father still loves the child.

And why is this the earliest we hear about him other than from the Bible?

because this is when Jesus came to earth for the first time.

Because atheism is lack of belief in a god, not a belief that there is no god

you do not believe there is a god-you believe there is no god.

Am I wrong in saying this is the exact same thing?

and made the flat world

the last time I checked the world was round

but murders people left and right only to torture them later

when has He tortured someone?

who forgives everyone but has to kill his son to be able to

until that point, people sacrificed animals. God made the very last sacrifice, so that there would be no more. hmm...
this kinda sounds like a loving God!

who wants to end the world horribly and apparently has already done

if you are reading this God has not ended the world.

but three separate people who are one person who are three people

if it confuses you that much, you can think of God like water. it can be solid, liquid, and gas, but is still always water

Who hates sex and everything you do even though he made you like that in the first way

God does not hate sex, in fact He wishes for us to multiply. God in disappoited with sex-related sins, such as adultery, premarital sex, incest, pornography, etc., but God does not hate sex itself

What sect are you? I am sure you would agree that someone does not share your beliefs? Westboro baptist. Mormon. Catholics. Really, since there are a thousands sects of Christianity, wouldn't that be "Anyone who is not the person saying this"? Every person seems to have their own Christianity.

if you want to know, I am Lutheran. christianity, though, encases all denominations. and if you said that Catholics, for exampe, are the only true Christians, the other denominaions would not be Christians, and therefore would not be Christians that misunderstood Christianity

Basically he didn't write that part. He got it from Christians.

what? how do you figure he didn't write this?

[quote]God is loving.\r\nGod commits multiple mass slaughters\r\n= EXTREMELY inconsistent.[/quote]\r\n\r\n1. A father loves his child.\r\n2. A father sees his child doing something wrong.\r\n3. A father punishes the child, so that the child does not do the wrong thing that it was doing again.\r\n4. A father still loves the child.\r\n\r\n[quote]And why is this the earliest we hear about him other than from the Bible?[/quote]\r\n\r\nbecause this is when Jesus came to earth for the first time.\r\n\r\n[quote]Because atheism is lack of belief in a god, not a belief that there is no god[/quote]\r\n\r\nyou do not believe there is a god-you believe there is no god.\r\n\r\nAm I wrong in saying [b]this is the exact same thing[/b]?\r\n\r\n[quote]and made the flat world[/quote] \r\n\r\nthe last time I checked the world was round\r\n\r\n[quote]but murders people left and right only to torture them later[/quote]\r\n\r\nwhen has He tortured someone?\r\n\r\n[quote]who forgives everyone but has to kill his son to be able to[/quote]\r\n\r\nuntil that point, people sacrificed animals. God made the very last sacrifice, so that there would be no more. hmm...\r\nthis kinda sounds like a loving God!\r\n\r\n[quote]who wants to end the world horribly and apparently has already done [/quote]\r\n\r\nif you are reading this God has not ended the world.\r\n\r\n[quote]but three separate people who are one person who are three people[/quote]\r\n\r\nif it confuses you that much, you can think of God like water. it can be solid, liquid, and gas, but is still always water\r\n\r\n[quote]Who hates sex and everything you do even though he made you like that in the first way[/quote]\r\n\r\nGod does not hate sex, in fact He wishes for us to multiply. God in disappoited with sex-related sins, such as adultery, premarital sex, incest, pornography, etc., but God does not hate sex itself\r\n\r\n[quote]What sect are you? I am sure you would agree that someone does not share your beliefs? Westboro baptist. Mormon. Catholics. Really, since there are a thousands sects of Christianity, wouldn't that be "Anyone who is not the person saying this"? Every person seems to have their own Christianity. [/quote]\r\n\r\nif you want to know, I am Lutheran. christianity, though, encases all denominations. and if you said that Catholics, for exampe, are the only true Christians, the other denominaions would not be Christians, and therefore would not be [i]Christians[/i] that misunderstood Christianity\r\n\r\n[quote]Basically he didn't write that part. He got it from Christians.[/quote]\r\n\r\nwhat? how do you figure he didn't write this?

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted March 17, '12 11:11pm UTC

1. A father loves his child.
2. A father sees his child doing something wrong.
3. A father punishes the child, so that the child does not do the wrong thing that it was doing again.
4. A father still loves the child.

Notice, however, that the father didn't blame his other 5 million children for the crimes of the two, and didn't kill all but a few of them.

because this is when Jesus came to earth for the first time.

In 94 w/e ce..?

you do not believe there is a god-you believe there is no god.

Am I wrong in saying this is the exact same thing?

No, you're not.

"I do not believe there is a god" can be looked at as implying that a god exists, and we simply just believe otherwise.

"I have no belief in a god" relegates everything to where it should be, namely, that -others- might have a belief in a god, but we -don't- have a belief in such.

the last time I checked the world was round

And the Bible implies that the earth is flat and supported underneath by pillars.

when has He tortured someone?

Sends them to hell.

this kinda sounds like a loving God!

No, a loving God would do this.

"STOP KILLING INNOCENT THINGS TO TRY TO APPEASE ME, IT JUST MAKES ME SAD" in a loud, booming voice that no one could miss.

No more sacrifices.

if it confuses you that much, you can think of God like water

Which is just your interpretation of it.

where do you get that idea?

The Bible.

[quote]1. A father loves his child.\r\n2. A father sees his child doing something wrong.\r\n3. A father punishes the child, so that the child does not do the wrong thing that it was doing again.\r\n4. A father still loves the child.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNotice, however, that the father didn't blame his other 5 million children for the crimes of the two, and didn't kill all but a few of them. \r\n\r\n[quote]because this is when Jesus came to earth for the first time.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIn 94 w/e ce..?\r\n\r\n[quote]you do not believe there is a god-you believe there is no god.\r\n\r\nAm I wrong in saying this is the exact same thing?[/quote]\r\n\r\nNo, you're not.\r\n\r\n"I do not believe there is a god" can be looked at as implying that a god exists, and we simply just believe otherwise.\r\n\r\n"I have no belief in a god" relegates everything to where it should be, namely, that -others- might have a belief in a god, but we -don't- have a belief in such.\r\n\r\n[quote]the last time I checked the world was round[/quote]\r\n\r\nAnd the Bible implies that the earth is flat and supported underneath by pillars.\r\n\r\n[quote]when has He tortured someone?[/quote]\r\n\r\nSends them to hell.\r\n\r\n[quote]this kinda sounds like a loving God![/quote]\r\n\r\nNo, a loving God would do this.\r\n\r\n"STOP KILLING INNOCENT THINGS TO TRY TO APPEASE ME, IT JUST MAKES ME SAD" in a loud, booming voice that no one could miss. \r\n\r\nNo more sacrifices.\r\n\r\n[quote]if it confuses you that much, you can think of God like water[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhich is just your interpretation of it. \r\n\r\n[quote]where do you get that idea?\r\n[/quote]\r\n\r\n[url=http://bible.cc/1_corinthians/2-16.htm]The Bible.[/url]

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