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thepyro222
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thepyro222
2,150 posts
Peasant

I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done.
I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please

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MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Last time I tried I offered to give my own experience with Christianity and I think I was shot down and called a troll for it.

Seeing as we seem to be establishing at least a little civil dialog here how about an attempt to try and get things a bit back on track a bit?

What positive impact has being a Christian had in your life personally?

Has there ever been a time that made you question your belief in Christianity? If so what was it that made you question your belief?

For the other atheists it might be tempting but let's not try and turn these into loaded questions.

MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

I wonder what's the probability of God existing, by your opinion?


I don't think I could really assign a specific number to it, it would be very low. Let's just say I couldn't think of anything more incredible then God, which is why I demand the most incredible evidence of his existence.
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

hmmm. I have to think a lot on these.

What positive impact has being a Christian had in your life personally?
Well, I think I have discovered a source of love flowing out of me, when I have returned to God and became a faithful Christian. I have become a lot less angered at anything, I have become more tolerable and calm in general, I have found that I can love both my mother and my wife, without them competing for my heart. I have also become less selfish and more open to people. Probably there are more changes that are not so noticed by me. But, I believe all that I have said is not me changing myself, but God changing me.
Has there ever been a time that made you question your belief in Christianity? If so what was it that made you question your belief?
None so far, though I'm pretty new to Christianity, and in times of my youth I wasn't taught about who is God and how am I related to Him, so I went to what you can say "atheistic" life, not regarding God but not surpassing certain borders within myself. I still wonder how did that happen, with all the temptations of the 90s in Russia, now I can only say that it was God who saved me from all that taint.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

I'm just letting the righteous people know not to reply to this thread anymore. It's turned into a monster, and I have to kill the monster I created.


Beware the word righteous. It's a word that will twist and turn your motives at every point until you are bound in a fury of righteousness. The word looks clean and pure on the surface, but to be righteous is a flaw in itself. It allows no room for growth, and brooks no argument from the outside world. The word righteous is a sterile thing and would be happen that you too remain sterile, for that is where it draws its charms. Clean, certain, just. These words are pointless in our world, nothing is clean, it is all muddied by the sins of our forefathers. Nothing is certain, we are lost in the fog of our own ignorance. Nothing is just, we cannot be trusted to be arbiters of our own life, and even decreeing a higher power as the arbiter, we become arbiters of that power. Those who claim to stand aside the righteous, beware of them. No matter their faith, whether they hold to a god or not, beware. In all my words, righteous is the one I am most reluctant to use.

-The Writer
vesperbot
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vesperbot
955 posts
Nomad

I do accept the possibility of a God I don't accept the probability of a God.
By the way, this phrase might also mean that you are afraid about God existing, therefore it's psychologically easier for you to deny any evidence and any probability of Him existing, if so, this is a sign of disturbed conscience. Check yourself please, if there's something that you do makes you feel bad.
wolf1991
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wolf1991
3,437 posts
Farmer

By the way, this phrase might also mean that you are afraid about God existing, therefore it's psychologically easier for you to deny any evidence and any probability of Him existing, if so, this is a sign of disturbed conscience. Check yourself please, if there's something that you do makes you feel bad.


A lure of religion is the idea of redeeming a guilty conscience. Furthermore, there is no "evidence" of a conclusive kind. A political tool (the bible) is not evidence. History has shown time and time again that it twists our perceptions. To the victor go the spoils. If Christianity had not found root in ancient Rome would we have the bible? No. If Germany had won WWII would the Allied been demonized instead of the Nazis? Yes.
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

By the way, this phrase might also mean that you are afraid about God existing


No I'm not. While I do find God as described in the Bible to be a quite appalling character.
If God was as the average Christian describes him as an all loving being I would be fine with such a beings existence and would really have no reason to be afraid. Such a being should understand my mindset and accept me for who I am. There are denominations of Christianity who believe that it's deeds that get you into heaven, if there really was an afterlife I would be all for it, even if eternity became unbelievably boring.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

People that try to make a Christian contradict themselves just so they can be 'right'.

? Does that mean we can't question, nor find fallacies?

they do it a bit more peacefully than some atheists around here.

I would really like to see an example.
Batgrumpy
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Batgrumpy
33 posts
Nomad

Science says the sun formed as a result of gravitational forces then afterwords the leftover debris formed into the planets.

Science has not proved that. Its called a theory, as in it could be but there is no proof for it. and what scientists present as proof for this evolution and many other things can, will, and have been taken and twisted to meet the beliefs of both religious people, atheists, and scientists alike.

I.E.
Theory of Relativity
Theory of Evolution
and the list goes on and on

many things are presented as scientific fact, but are in fact unprovable simply because Human written history only goes back a few thousand years.

It like dating fossils.

Scientist tell how old a fossil is by what layer of earth is found in.

Scientist tell how old a layer of dirt is by the age of the fossils found in that layer of dirt.

that's called circular reasoning, and it happens when people make facts try to prove their own personal beliefs and theorys.

You may not believe it, but go to your local library and get a book on how they date fossils, you'll find this all out in the first few pages.

I'm just saying even atheism is a belief system, just like Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

The fact remains we all believe something, some believe that nothing happens and we become dust and dirt, others believe God is coming to take us home one day. But really is it so hard to accept each other as human beings, we dont have to agree with each others post-living beliefs to still be able to get along.

Just base everything on faith and facts, and yes you can do both without contradicting yourself.

Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

Its called a theory, as in it could be but there is no proof for it.


I suggest you learn what a scientific theory is before you say such blatant falsehoods again.
driejen
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driejen
486 posts
Nomad

Science says the sun formed as a result of gravitational forces then afterwords the leftover debris formed into the planets.

You can understand gravity by the behavior of objects in space and on earth, you can observe stars in various stages of its life cycle with telescopes, and you can make mathematical models to show this process and simulate very accurately the properties of stellar systems.

Science has not proved that. Its called a theory, as in it could be but there is no proof for it. and what scientists present as proof for this evolution and many other things can, will, and have been taken and twisted to meet the beliefs of both religious people, atheists, and scientists alike.
Science works on degrees of certainty, it tries to find the best explanations for all available data. Real science works with cold logic, by rigorous unbiased testing. This is not the same as having a baseless opinion in the least.

Scientist tell how old a fossil is by what layer of earth is found in.
Scientist tell how old a layer of dirt is by the age of the fossils found in that layer of dirt.
that's called circular reasoning, and it happens when people make facts try to prove their own personal beliefs and theorys.

Ever heard of radiometric dating and phylogenetics?

I'm just saying even atheism is a belief system, just like Hindu, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism and Christianity.

Atheist is a lack of belief in a god. You may be able to make generilizations about atheists but atheism itself is not a system of thought. The only requirement to be an atheist is to deny claims for god's existence. You do not have to follow certain guidelines to be one. Certain ways of thinking can lead you to atheism, but atheist does not dictate in what way you should think.

The fact remains we all believe something, some believe that nothing happens and we become dust and dirt, others believe God is coming to take us home one day. But really is it so hard to accept each other as human beings, we dont have to agree with each others post-living beliefs to still be able to get along.
I have nothing against the theistic persons, just their beliefs. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but that doesn't mean making up facts is respectable. And if someone comes into a debate making baseless assertions, then they better be prepared for criticizm.

Just base everything on faith and facts, and yes you can do both without contradicting yourself.

I find it pretty much impossible to be part of a judeo-christian religion without contradicting myself. The bible is full of false facts, like the flat earth and the 7 day creation, talking snakes, talking donkeys, magical fruit. The questionable and often times contradictory moral laws in the bible as well make it impossible to rationally take the bible literally as wholly correct. If it is not wholly correct then how do I know which parts ARE correct?
Freakenstein
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Freakenstein
9,504 posts
Jester

Science says the sun formed as a result of gravitational forces then afterwords the leftover debris formed into the planets.

Science has not proved that.


Excuse... me?

Its called a theory, as in it could be but there is no proof for it.


The definitions for theory are as follows:

a coherent group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for a class of phenomena
a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.
the branch of a science or art that deals with its principles or methods, as distinguished from its practice
a particular conception or view of something to be done or of the method of doing it; a system of rules or principles.
A theory in technical use is a more or less verified or established explanation accounting for known facts or phenomena

It is better that you know the traditional definitions of words before you speak your own interpretation of what it means. Not to mention theories often times have bundles and bundles of proof to back it up. Otherwise, it is simply an educated guess, or a hypothesis. THE MORE YOU KNOW!!

and what scientists present as proof for this evolution and many other things can, will, and have been taken and twisted to meet the beliefs of both religious people, atheists, and scientists alike.


I do hope that what scientists are finding aren't twisted by their own peers. Because otherwise, what is the point of peer reviews? I can see how the religious twist the ideas of scientific theories though. I'm not one to damage the perspectives of the religious, but many spectra of the scientific ideas that the religious are claiming is because they don't know the material, or their opinions of the material is skewed because of what they believe in. Scientists don't just unravel mysteries to just let those bend their findings. What is found is found.

many things are presented as scientific fact, but are in fact unprovable simply because Human written history only goes back a few thousand years.


Because we weren't keeping track of history far enough to delve into other matters means they aren't real? Are the various bones archaeologists digging up just unfounded? Are they just bones, or do they present a story of the years when the bones were used? Was everything predating human-recorded history just unfounded? Was there no point to early history until we showed up and written stuff down?

Scientist tell how old a fossil is by what layer of earth is found in.

Scientist tell how old a layer of dirt is by the age of the fossils found in that layer of dirt.

that's called circular reasoning, and it happens when people make facts try to prove their own personal beliefs and theorys.


No, it really isn't. You take a layer of earth by the form of dating that they wish to use and the results come up as "XXXXX". If the fossils contained in the dirt still retain the compounds of said dirt, among other requirements and prerequisites, then obviously, said fossil is aged appropriately.

It is not circular reasoning simply because the same nouns are used with various word usage. You dig?

You may not believe it, but go to your local library and get a book on how they date fossils, you'll find this all out in the first few pages.


A great many scientific books are presented objectively, which makes me believe that this quote above is false. Since they are using dating methods to figure out the age of fossils, bones, layers of rock and earth, and what have you, while their methods are proven to work, it goes without saying that their works have quite a bit of merit.

I'm just saying even atheism is a belief sy--


Stop right there. Atheism is the lack of belief. Nothing more.

The fact remains we all believe something, some believe that nothing happens and we become dust and dirt, others believe God is coming to take us home one day. But really is it so hard to accept each other as human beings, we dont have to agree with each others post-living beliefs to still be able to get along.


There is traditional belief, and then there is faith. A big difference.

Just base everything on faith and facts, and yes you can do both without contradicting yourself.


If you are religious, you just hurt yourself by saying this. Base everything on faith? Oh yes, we can have faith in many things. Doesn't mean that said faith is going to be fruitful. Facts, on the other hand, are proven. Given evidence to back up the claims. Submitted via peer review. There is no faith or belief in what science is doing. It is simply a "we don't know, but we plan to find out". Faith instead is fundamentally: "we know because we think we do".
MageGrayWolf
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MageGrayWolf
9,462 posts
Farmer

Its called a theory, as in it could be but there is no proof for it.


That's the furthest thing from what a scientific theory is. A theory in science is an explanation of the observations made and has been independently verified multiple times.

scientists present as proof for this evolution and many other things can, will, and have been taken and twisted to meet the beliefs of both religious people, atheists, and scientists alike.


Yes because the cornerstone of modern biology is just one big conspiracy orchestrated by multiple by people around the entire world. Clearly by how biology today doesn't do a thing for us like produce new medicines to combat illnesses which directly relies on evolution, it must be false.
It's not like we have ever observed something evolve, like this.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn14094-bacteria-make-major-evolutionary-shift-in-the-lab.html

I.E.
Theory of Relativity
Theory of Evolution
and the list goes on and on


Theory of Gravity (must be magic pixies)
Germ Theory (clearly demons not microbes)
Round Earth Theory (welcome flatlander)
Atomic Theory
http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/7/24/atomicfail128614027228214595.jpg

Scientist tell how old a fossil is by what layer of earth is found in.


And some weird radiometric thingies.


Scientist tell how old a layer of dirt is by the age of the fossils found in that layer of dirt.


And it could have nothing to do with that radiowhatsamabob dating.


that's called circular reasoning, and it happens when people make facts try to prove their own personal beliefs and theorys.


Keep this in mind next time you use the Bible to prove the Bible.

I'm just saying even atheism is a belief system,


And not collecting stamps is a hobby. And not playing baseball is a sport.


Just base everything on faith and facts, and yes you can do both without contradicting yourself.


If you have facts you don't need faith as the evidence can support your position on it's own.
Batgrumpy
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Batgrumpy
33 posts
Nomad

You have to believe in your lack of belief. otherwise it's just nothing. If you don't completely believe in a lack of faith based beliefs, theres nothing to keep you from being converted, which I believe is where the guys who started this thread said "I was atheist for 16 years." He said that and then everyone tore into him for being irrational, but he was the only one being that way.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,552 posts
Jester

You have to believe in your lack of belief. otherwise it's just nothing. If you don't completely believe in a lack of faith based beliefs, theres nothing to keep you from being converted


*Rolls on floor dying of laughter* So, let me get this straight, I have to believe that I don't believe, in order to believe that I don't have faith to believe, and THEN I can be "converted" because i'm so confused that I have no idea what's going on?
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