I grew up atheist for 16 years. I had always kept an open mind towards religion, but never really felt a need to believe in it. My sister started going to a Wednesday night children's program at a church. Eventually, I was dragged into a Christmas Eve service. Scoffing, I reluctantly went, assuming that this was going to be a load of crap, but when I went, I felt something. Something that I've never felt before. I felt a sense of empowerment and a sense of calling. Jesus called upon my soul, just like he did with his disciples. he wanted me to follow him. Now, my life is being lived for Christ. He died on the cross for my sins, and the sins of everyone who believes in him. He was beaten, brutalized, struck with a whip 39 times, made to carry a cross up to the stage of his death. This I believe to be true, and I can never repay him for what he has done. I still have my struggles with Christianity, but I've found this bit of information most useful. Religion is not comprehensible in the human mind, because we cannot comprehend the idea of a perfect and supreme being, a God, but we can believe it in our heart, and that's the idea of faith. Faith is, even though everything rides against me believing in Jesus, I still believe in him because I know that it's true in my heart. I invite my fellow Brothers and sisters of the LORD to talk about how Jesus has helped you in your life. No atheists and no insults please
I think the point was that God was proving he loved us by sacrificing his son.
My rebuttal to that is: God sure is messed up if he thinks displaying love requires a brutal, torturous, unnecessary death. How, in any way, is torturing your own son to death a loving act?
And Kasic Have you ever been to church before and if you did have you read the bible page to page.
I've said 2-3 times in the past two pages that I have been to church many times before. As for the bible, I've read the majority of it (although not recently).
And if you did did you actually listen to the talks people gave?
I always listen when people speak. I also think about what they say. When I went to a Catholic church, the sermons were always the exact same and were about how people are horrible and we need God. The Methodist church was mostly random stories which were used as examples for the ideas in various books in the Bible.
And if you did read the Bible did you pray if those things are true?
I'm not seeing how praying if something is true has anything to do with what is true. To answer your question though, I did, up until around age 6-7, believe in God, if only because my parents told me he was real and I had no reason to doubt them. I would pray in church when the pastor asked me to and before dinner and such...
From ~7 onward I began to question what was told to me because things weren't lining up. Age 11 I had a fight with my parents about me not wanting to go to church anymore because I said I didn't believe God was real and I didn't want to spend my Sunday mornings doing something I thought was pointless. After I got dragged to church for another year I finally put my foot down and refused to go, haven't been since.
Kasic if you did not believe in those to churches you went to then go to a different church. One that maybe you will understand and they don't tell you that you are wicked the church I go to does not do that.
1) Jesus dying is a "requirement" only because God made it so. A truly loving, all powerful God could have saved us without sacrificing his own son.
2) Provide proof that we "live again" please. As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die.
Jesus was tortured but that was not a very long period of time.
I know how long Jesus was on the cross, but do you? Please answer, without using Google. I'd like to see if your repeated advisories for me to read the Bible are followed.
Because Jesus did that we wont be tortured for all entirety.
Again, Jesus being sacrificed was 100% unnecessary.
Kasic if you did not believe in those to churches you went to then go to a different church.
I've got to laugh here.
First of all, both of what I mentioned were Christian churches. They each taught that God and Jesus were real, that Jesus died on the cross and took mankind's sins upon himself, was entombed and rose from the dead on the third day and later ascended to heaven.
I don't go to church because I don't need to be told what to believe, sorry. I can think for myself.
One that maybe you will understand and they don't tell you that you are wicked the church I go to does not do that.
Oh? So your church doesn't tell you mankind are all inherently sinners and that without God's grace we would go to hell? (or at least, not go to heaven)
It was nine hours that is what Mark 15:24-37 says
Yes, it was 6-9 hours depending on which gospel.
You don't think 9 hours on a cross with nails through you and your weight on them after beatings beforehand is "not a very long period of time?"
You don't think all entirety of torture is bad. Yes 9 hours of torture is bad but compared to all entirety its not even close
Right, I'm getting tired of this evasion.
Going to just restate all the things you've ignored up to this point, please respond to them.
1) "There are no reliable historical records that definitively prove [Jesus] existed."
2) "Why do you attribute a sense of accomplishment, satisfaction, or just general well being to some unseen cause?"
3) "Why did anyone need to die at all, perfect or not? An all powerful God could have literally achieved what he wanted in an infinite number of non-bloody ways."
4) "How, in any way, is torturing your own son to death a loving act?"
5) "Provide proof that we 'live again' please. As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die."
Since you don't seem to be hearing me, let me say it again. Jesus's suffering on the cross was completely unnecessary.
"As far as I can tell, I've never been dead and people don't live again after they die."
You can't see the person live agin because it is their spirt not their body
I will agree about one thing there could of been other ways to make or sins forgiven.
You seem not to be listing to me.
God loved the so much that he gave his only son.
One person had to die for all of are sins to be forgiven and it was not when he was on the cross when are sins where forgiven it was in the garden of gethsemane.
I will agree about one thing there could of been other ways to make or sins forgiven.
One person had to die for all of are sins to be forgiven
Trying to defend your belief with arguments is already hard (as belief is nothing mroe than belief), but if you do, please try to be consistent at least. Why did anyone have to die just to prove a god's love? And why can so many people in modern times apparently experience gods love without killing their sons or whatever?
You can't see the person live agin because it is their spirt not their body
Then how do you know there is a spirit or afterlife? What proof for those claims do you have?
God loved the so much that he gave his only son.
Except, he didn't need to. He could have done something better, which caused no suffering. He could have just shown the light to everyone.
Actually, what we're arguing about right now is basically how God fixed a hole in the boat. Thing is though, God made that boat with the hole in it.
If someone pushes you off a cliff and rescues your broken body, does that make them a savior? No. So why does God play that role?
He created us as we are, as sinners. By definition of omnipotent, he MUST have known that we would sin. Thus he intentionally made us fall by providing the random tree (really, what reason did God have to make that tree?). Then he "rescues" us by having us mindlessly worship him. I don't know about you, but even if such a figure exists (which we have no proof for) I think God is a horrible being and I wouldn't want to follow him anyways if he's how the Bible portrays him.
Not even going into how it's impossible for two humans to breed an entire race anyways, we'd be so inbred that we would die off in a few generations. The whole idea is flawed from the start at every turn...
I forgot to include this in the list of questions too.
"Oh? So your church doesn't tell you mankind are all inherently sinners and that without God's grace we would go to hell? (or at least, not go to heaven)"
This life is a test that a lot of people are failing we came here because god wanted to see if we would keep the commandments or not.
In haven we agreed to come down to earth for a physical body. So thats why we sin because we forgot everything when we came to earth. Amen Brothers Amen.
This life is a test that a lot of people are failing we came here because god wanted to see if we would keep the commandments or not.
In other words, God is playing a random and pointless games with souls he creates and tortures them for all eternity if they fail. Soooo loving, am I right?
In haven we agreed to come down to earth for a physical body.
I don't remember that. By the way, exactly what denomination do you follow...?
How do you know this anyways?
So thats why we sin because we forgot everything when we came to earth.
Do you really not see how ridiculous the things you're saying are?
