religon throughout AG - Armor Games Community

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted April 25, '11 2:49am UTC

Think about it. A religion based purely on reason and Nature. Can't really go wrong.

How can a religion be based on reason if they believe in things which are fundamentally contrary to reason and evidence? And really, Deism is just a nice form apathy. "Sure, there's a God. And he created all this mess. But he doesn't care. We don't have to pray or go to church, cause he left us on our own." That's basically deism right there. A reasonable though process would likely just say that there isn't even reason to believe that said deity is there anyway, since it's a completely moot point and not based on evidence.

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benobiace1

65 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 2:51am UTC

The essence of fact finding is following the evidence and altering your position when your position is baseless

You see, that's excactly it. My religion is not baseless. I have every reason in the world to believe that God exists, but with the big bang theory, the only thing I think I would have to go by is Charles Darwin. Its like this: maybe my religion is baseless, maybe I have no proof, but do you have any either?

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 2:53am UTC

You see, that's excactly it. My religion is not baseless

Yes, it is.

[quote]have every reason in the world to believe that God exists, but with the big bang theory, the only thing I think I would have to go by is Charles Darwin.

What does Darwin have to do with the creation of the universe? It would be more like mountains of evidence and people like Steven Hawking.

Its like this: maybe my religion is baseless, maybe I have no proof, but do you have any either?

Tones... Have you not been paying attention?

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benobiace1

65 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 2:59am UTC

It would be more like mountains of evidence...

I know, I am making you angry, but where is this evidence?

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benobiace1

65 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 3:07am UTC

I have to log off now, we can continue tomorrow maybe.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted April 25, '11 3:34am UTC

My religion is not baseless. I have every reason in the world to believe that God exists

Provide one piece of verifiable, testable, repeatable, demonstrable evidence.

but with the big bang theory, the only thing I think I would have to go by is Charles Darwin.

Charles Darwin was the first man to propose evolution by natural selection and common descent. He had absolutely nothing to do with the 'big bang' cosmological model. If you truly want to understand the basics of the 'big bang' model here are some links to get you started, and show why we know the 'big bang' happened:

Article 1

Article 2

Article 3

Article 4

Article 5

Now, if you want to address Charles Darwin and evolution, we can do that too. In fact I'd love to, primarily because evolution is one of the most well documented and proven understandings of our universe that we have available. Here is some reading to get you started on understanding evolution:

Let's start with addressing a few misconceptions.

More FAQ's answered regarding evolution.

Evolution and natural selection explained.

More about evolution and the evidence.

Why evolution is both a fact and a theory.

More about the evidence for evolution

My favorite site on evolution, UC Berkeley's "Evolution 101" page. Click through it and read all sorts of things about evolution. This site contains a VAST amount of information so be prepared to spend some time with it.

I know, I am making you angry, but where is this evidence?

It's not so much that you are making anyone angry. Personally I am still baffled at how people, students especially, in today's society can still be completely ignorant to the facts. The evidence is everywhere. Museums are especially great sources, your textbooks are wonderful, and there virtually limitless sources of legitimate information on the internet.

My frustration comes from the reality that many children today are not taught critical thinking skills as I feel they should be and they are not properly educated on the scientific method so that they can understand what is evidence and what isn't, and how to tell the difference between truthful information and information which is inaccurate or misleading.

If your reading something that doesn't cite sources, and if the sources cited are not verfiable by unbiased data, and if the information contained is not based on experimentation and testing then it probably isn't true. Unfortunately most people don't look into things, they take them at face value and parrot whatever supports their idea, instead of aligning their ideas with what the evidence says. In short, the difference between science and religion is pretty much like this:

http://sciencefun.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/2007-01-15-science-vs-faith.png?w=670&h=527

[quote]My religion is not baseless. I have every reason in the world to believe that God exists[/quote]\r\n\r\nProvide one piece of verifiable, testable, repeatable, demonstrable evidence. \r\n\r\n[quote]but with the big bang theory, the only thing I think I would have to go by is Charles Darwin.[/quote]\r\n\r\nCharles Darwin was the first man to propose evolution by natural selection and common descent. He had absolutely nothing to do with the 'big bang' cosmological model. If you truly want to understand the basics of the 'big bang' model here are some links to get you started, and show why we know the 'big bang' happened:\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm]Article 1[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/03/0317_060317_big_bang.html]Article 2[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/astronomy/bigbang.html]Article 3[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://burro.astr.cwru.edu/stu/cosmos_bigbang.html]Article 4[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.astronomynotes.com/cosmolgy/s7.htm]Article 5[/url]\r\n\r\nNow, if you want to address Charles Darwin and evolution, we can do that too. In fact I'd love to, primarily because evolution is one of the most well documented and proven understandings of our universe that we have available. Here is some reading to get you started on understanding evolution:\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html]Let's start with addressing a few misconceptions.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/faq/cat04.html]More FAQ's answered regarding evolution.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.globalchange.umich.edu/globalchange1/current/lectures/selection/selection.html]Evolution and natural selection explained.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm]More about evolution and the evidence.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html]Why evolution is both a fact and a theory.[/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://www.actionbioscience.org/evolution/lenski.html] More about the evidence for evolution [/url]\r\n\r\n[url=http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/article/evo_01]My favorite site on evolution, UC Berkeley's "Evolution 101" page. Click through it and read all sorts of things about evolution. This site contains a VAST amount of information so be prepared to spend some time with it.[/url]\r\n\r\n[quote]I know, I am making you angry, but where is this evidence?[/quote]\r\n\r\nIt's not so much that you are making anyone angry. Personally I am still baffled at how people, students especially, in today's society can still be completely ignorant to the facts. The evidence is everywhere. Museums are especially great sources, your textbooks are wonderful, and there virtually limitless sources of legitimate information on the internet. \r\n\r\nMy frustration comes from the reality that many children today are not taught critical thinking skills as I feel they should be and they are not properly educated on the scientific method so that they can understand what is evidence and what isn't, and how to tell the difference between truthful information and information which is inaccurate or misleading. \r\n\r\nIf your reading something that doesn't cite sources, and if the sources cited are not verfiable by unbiased data, and if the information contained is not based on experimentation and testing then it probably isn't true. Unfortunately most people don't look into things, they take them at face value and parrot whatever supports their idea, instead of aligning their ideas with what the evidence says. In short, the difference between science and religion is pretty much like this: \r\n\r\n[img]http://sciencefun.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/2007-01-15-science-vs-faith.png?w=670&h=527[/img]

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TackyCrazyTNT

1,936 posts

Peasant

Posted April 25, '11 3:47am UTC

Walker, stop being so thorough. I have nothing left to say. XD
I really like the picture. I think it accurately depicts the way the opposing sides think and pictures are more effective than words sometimes.

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted April 25, '11 4:32am UTC

Lmao. I've never seen that version of the religious way of forming new ideas.

Hehe, here's a question for you religious folks out there. What, if anything, would 100% disprove god. It doesn't have to exist yet, you don't even have to believe it could ever exist, but what would &quotossibly" be used to completely disprove it with no doubt remaining?

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MageGrayWolf

9,462 posts

Farmer

Posted April 25, '11 6:50am UTC

and the huge timeline apparently used by Atheists.

Not really there are many deists who accept the timeline of the universe provided by scientific observation. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if those who don't are in the minority.

Also I have to wonder where this idea of god comes from if he doesn't exist in this reality and doesn't interact with it. It's a bit like a tale of a ghost ship that everyone who has seen it has died, making one wonder where the stories of said ghost ship comes from if no one has survived to give a description.

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vesperbot

955 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 7:40am UTC

Hehe, here's a question for you religious folks out there. What, if anything, would 100% disprove god.

A completely illogical request. The religious will answer "Nothing" and will be right.

Yep, I'm Catholic.

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MRWalker82

4,005 posts

Shepherd

Posted April 25, '11 7:45am UTC

A completely illogical request. The religious will answer "Nothing" and will be right.

Yep, I'm Catholic.

Ah, as I expected, you come into a discussion declaring your unwillingness to accept that you might be wrong. You admit freely that you will never accept evidence which contradicts your presupposition. What, then, is the point of your presence here? You obviously do not care about truth, you do not value facts, so why waste your time (and ours) discussing these things at all?

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qwerty1011

554 posts

Peasant

Posted April 25, '11 8:07am UTC

Hehe, here's a question for you religious folks out there. What, if anything, would 100% disprove god. It doesn't have to exist yet, you don't even have to believe it could ever exist, but what would &quotossibly" be used to completely disprove it with no doubt remaining?

No you need to ask what can disprove the IPU or FSM or even Harry Potter or something.

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Kasic

5,552 posts

Jester

Posted April 25, '11 12:28pm UTC

A completely illogical request. The religious will answer "Nothing" and will be right.

This just shows how closed minded you are. As stated, you don't "have" to believe it will ever happen. All you have to do is (in your case) provide some fictional scenario that "would" disprove god.

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vesperbot

955 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 12:33pm UTC

*gets popcorn*

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valkery

1,255 posts

Nomad

Posted April 25, '11 2:56pm UTC

A reasonable though process would likely just say that there isn't even reason to believe that said deity is there anyway, since it's a completely moot point and not based on evidence

Deism isn't that simple, at least not for me. Others may take it as being that simple, but I don't.

I see holes in Christianity, and holes in scientific reasoning, that I fill with an omnipotent being. You could say that I am dead wrong, but really, would it matter if I was? If the omnipotent being wasn't real, then why would it matter if I believed he was?

You people try so hard to destroy what others hold as true. Honestly, the only time I could see it being a problem if I believed in an all-powerful being would be when I decide to blow up something to destroy people who believe slightly differently than I do. Or if I was one of those idiots who run the "Godhates***s" website. Morons....

Anyway, what is destroying my personal belief going to do to you in the days end? It may seem slightly nihilistic, but does anything you say on this website truly matter? I have raised points on here that you reply to and say, just because it hasn't been proven yet, that doesn't mean that it won't be. That case can be taken to every argument, the world over, and still be true.

Just like Christians and the Rapture. Just because it hasn't been proven yet, doesn't mean it isn't true!

Or anything else for that matter. I think this website really needs to realize that arguing endlessly over peoples personal beliefs is pointless, and should only be on one or two threads in this forum, not every single one.

That is why I am going to start a bunch of threads, every day or so, that have current news, hopefully I can break the cycle.

[quote]A reasonable though process would likely just say that there isn't even reason to believe that said deity is there anyway, since it's a completely moot point and not based on evidence[/quote]\r\n\r\nDeism isn't that simple, at least not for me. Others may take it as being that simple, but I don't. \r\n\r\nI see holes in Christianity, and holes in scientific reasoning, that I fill with an omnipotent being. You could say that I am dead wrong, but really, would it matter if I was? If the omnipotent being wasn't real, then why would it matter if I believed he was?\r\n\r\nYou people try so hard to destroy what others hold as true. Honestly, the only time I could see it being a problem if I believed in an all-powerful being would be when I decide to blow up something to destroy people who believe slightly differently than I do. Or if I was one of those idiots who run the "Godhates***s" website. Morons....\r\n\r\nAnyway, what is destroying my personal belief going to do to you in the days end? It may seem slightly nihilistic, but does anything you say on this website truly matter? I have raised points on here that you reply to and say, just because it hasn't been proven yet, that doesn't mean that it won't be. That case can be taken to every argument, the world over, and still be true. \r\n\r\nJust like Christians and the Rapture. Just because it hasn't been proven yet, doesn't mean it isn't true!\r\n\r\nOr anything else for that matter. I think this website really needs to realize that arguing endlessly over peoples personal beliefs is pointless, and should only be on one or two threads in this forum, not every single one. \r\n\r\nThat is why I am going to start a bunch of threads, every day or so, that have current news, hopefully I can break the cycle.

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