America, A New Perspective - Armor Games Community

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indie55

608 posts

Nomad

Posted May 15, '11 7:48pm UTC

So, most people reply to this thread thinking U.S, when it could be all of North America and South America.

For clarification purposes this post is about the United States of America. That is why I said America not Americas. And to answer the people who say it should be in the WEPR, you are probably correct. I had trouble thinking of which one it should go in. I had no idea how this would expand or anything. Just asking for other peoples opinions.

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master565

4,104 posts

Nomad

Posted May 15, '11 7:48pm UTC

Really? Pay attention very closely.

Sorry, i missed them. I just didn't see them because you didn't put it every time you said Americans. So your right and i apologize.

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Legion1350

5,365 posts

Nomad

Posted May 15, '11 11:36pm UTC

As a legal citizen of the United States of America, I would like to give my opinion, if I may. Please don't take offense by what I say. There are many times when I loathe the USA. The USA awards the asinine and rejects the intellectual. Let's take some statistics into account: According to the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, American 15-year-olds rank 17th in the world in science; 25th in math; 12th among developed countries in college education (just 25 years ago, we were #1). The USA is 79th in elementary school enrollment. The infrastructure ranks 23rd in the world. As for health, the USA is 27th in life expectancy, 18th in diabetes incidents, and 1st in obesity. However, there are areas where the USA excells. It has the highest crime rate of any right country. It has the world's largest export of pornography. It is #1 in illegal drug usage, and #1 in the export of movies and tv shows. Finally, it has the largest prison population in the world. You may ask if I am fond of America. My response is a boisterous "no".

As a legal citizen of the United States of America, I would like to give my opinion, if I may. Please don't take offense by what I say. There are many times when I loathe the USA. The USA awards the asinine and rejects the intellectual. Let's take some statistics into account: According to the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development, American 15-year-olds rank 17th in the world in science; 25th in math; 12th among developed countries in college education (just 25 years ago, we were #1). The USA is 79th in elementary school enrollment. The infrastructure ranks 23rd in the world. As for health, the USA is 27th in life expectancy, 18th in diabetes incidents, and 1st in obesity. However, there [i]are[/i] areas where the USA excells. It has the highest crime rate of any right country. It has the world's largest export of pornography. It is #1 in illegal drug usage, and #1 in the export of movies and tv shows. Finally, it has the largest prison population in the world. You may ask if I am fond of America. My response is a boisterous "no".

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Legion1350

5,365 posts

Nomad

Posted May 15, '11 11:37pm UTC

It has the highest crime rate of any rich country.

I'm sorry for double-posting, but I wanted to fix that.

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zakyman

1,627 posts

Peasant

Posted May 15, '11 11:50pm UTC

As an American, my view is that we are becoming a country of idiots, who don't even bother to look up what is going on in the news for other countries. We don't care about others, only ourselves, and that is the majority. Our government can't forget what divides us and embrace what unites us (we might become the Divided States of America), and our legal system, while good at times, can be played by the rich (Lindsey Lohan). On a positive note, we have given the world the biggest cause of obesity...McDonalds!
It's good to be an American.

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Legion1350

5,365 posts

Nomad

Posted May 15, '11 11:52pm UTC

Amen! I couldn't agree more. That is exactly my opinion of the USA. I'm glad I'm not the only one with this viewpoint.

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Strop

10,816 posts

Bard

Posted May 16, '11 3:11am UTC

Thread moved to WEPR.

As for my perspective, I can only offer one as an Australian resident and citizen who has visited California on a couple of occasions. And I do believe that Australia is the best place to live in the world (for me, anyway), if only it weren't so #%(*&ing expensive these days. At least, I say this mainly because my career path renders me nearly immune from nationwide economic woes, so long as I remain employable... so that's a biased opinion.

Australians, with their typical reticence and cynicism, make a pasttime of slagging the US, but I'm not going to do that here because Australia is more similar to the US than Australians probably like to think. That said:

Everything's bigger in America. Big and proud. Australians are generally more preoccupied with minding their own darn business and not sticking their head out. And the roads, and the cars are trending smaller, not bigger. Can't say the same for the people though, since obesity in Australia is worse (per capita) than in the US, though that's mainly skewed towards the poorer people (targeted marketing and lower morale makes poor and less educated people a prime target... and now their children too, which is the worrying part).

The word that people have been talking around but never quite mentioned is parochial. America's a big place, it's often regarded as "the center of the world", so most US-born citizens wouldn't have any compelling reason to know more about the world around them. However now's a really good time to start, seeing as the balance of power is surely shifting... and that strikes many as a scary thought.

Thread moved to WEPR.\r\n\r\nAs for my perspective, I can only offer one as an Australian resident and citizen who has visited California on a couple of occasions. And I do believe that Australia is the best place to live in the world (for me, anyway), if only it weren't so #%(*&ing expensive these days. At least, I say this mainly because my career path renders me nearly immune from nationwide economic woes, so long as I remain employable... so that's a biased opinion.\r\n\r\nAustralians, with their typical reticence and cynicism, make a pasttime of slagging the US, but I'm not going to do that here because Australia is more similar to the US than Australians probably like to think. That said:\r\n\r\nEverything's bigger in America. Big and proud. Australians are generally more preoccupied with minding their own darn business and not sticking their head out. And the roads, and the cars are trending smaller, not bigger. Can't say the same for the people though, since obesity in Australia is worse (per capita) than in the US, though that's mainly skewed towards the poorer people (targeted marketing and lower morale makes poor and less educated people a prime target... and now their children too, which is the worrying part).\r\n\r\nThe word that people have been talking around but never quite mentioned is [i]parochial[/i]. America's a big place, it's often regarded as "the center of the world", so most US-born citizens wouldn't have any compelling reason to know more about the world around them. However now's a really good time to start, seeing as the balance of power is surely shifting... and that strikes many as a scary thought.

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master565

4,104 posts

Nomad

Posted May 16, '11 3:26am UTC

Just a thought, if America didn't exist, neither would AG. Just a thought.

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Armed_Blade

1,482 posts

Shepherd

Posted May 16, '11 4:30am UTC

US is ranked:

5th in the most polluting people
4th in the most wastes
1st for strongest air pollution
1st for biggest nuclear wastes

It also has a population of 300 Million and a enormous amount of OCCUPIED Land [just so the Canada and Russia arguments don't spill in] -- Of course we're winning.
It's true, we throw away much more than the average person per capita in terms of waste. We also win in terms of water waste [then again, our water costs a LOT less]
We also have a bunch of rude, noise, arrogant morons. We win in crime, drugs, fatness, etc.

Yet, we're a diverse nation with a lot of coal. The biggest thing I love about this country is not what is in it but what it stands for. It might sound a little cliche but I've always loved knowing that I was born in a place that was created for the sake of an idea.

I do think that a lot of people thing America is the best place in the universe. I'd say I'm one of them. America freaking rocks. I don't see any statistic evidence to prove otherwise at the moment, and if some people would like to say we're at the top of the world, then let them, I think our 14 Trillion Dollar GDP has some meaning to it, even if our debt is equalizing it.

I would like to say that even though I love America, I can see its downfalls. The country is headed towards a wrong direction. As a high school student, I know a lot of the same people from all of the same classes. Everyone else I see is an idiot to me. Because really, we've got a lot of idiots.

Americans are an overly proud arrogant people, who glorfiy their own history. Many the debate I have had over various incidents in history where America and Canada have had an impact. And always my American counterpart has rudely disregarded my country's hand in such events. Claiming America's superiority in blind ignorance

I'm sorry to say it, but, though I respect the history of the world and all that it stands for. Americans do have a lot to be proud it. We are symbolic of individualism and ever since the 1940's, we've been bosses. I don't see where they claim superiority in 'blind ignorance'. America's done a lot.

Being a Muslim, I can tell you one of the worst things about America is it's fake diversity. We always clamor around talking about all the Asians and Black people we have running around. But really, if they're not assimilated as one big block of American mass then they're excluded a lot.

Overall, though, I think, it really depends on where you live in America. I live in the third richest county in the nation, and the first and second richest neighbor my county. So my thoughts are a little questionable, seeing as where I live now -- everything is green and pretty, crime rates are dead and the area I'm in was apparently bubbled out of the recession.

^ But I've also lived in Northwest Greater Houston, where I saw a lot of drugs and morons and illegal immigrants. Not fun.

so overall, I think it is fair to say that America is an amazing country based on what it stands for and it's history. What it is right now is a little distasteful, but I believe it has the tools required to patch itself up and continue on, I'm not in any way expecting a demise of this great country. I think the #1 thing it needs is education, and to teach people about globalization and where America really is on the earth. I really think it's going downhill -- but as for now, America is pretty sweet.

[quote]US is ranked:\r\n\r\n5th in the most polluting people\r\n4th in the most wastes\r\n1st for strongest air pollution\r\n1st for biggest nuclear wastes[/quote]\r\n\r\nIt also has a population of 300 Million and a enormous amount of OCCUPIED Land [just so the Canada and Russia arguments don't spill in] -- Of course we're winning.\r\nIt's true, we throw away much more than the average person per capita in terms of waste. We also win in terms of water waste [then again, our water costs a LOT less]\r\nWe also have a bunch of rude, noise, arrogant morons. We win in crime, drugs, fatness, etc. \r\n\r\nYet, we're a diverse nation with a lot of coal. The biggest thing I love about this country is not what is in it but what it stands for. It might sound a little cliche but I've always loved knowing that I was born in a place that was created for the sake of an idea.\r\n\r\nI do think that a lot of people thing America is the best place in the universe. I'd say I'm one of them. America freaking rocks. I don't see any statistic evidence to prove otherwise at the moment, and if some people would like to say we're at the top of the world, then let them, I think our 14 Trillion Dollar GDP has some meaning to it, even if our debt is equalizing it. \r\n\r\nI would like to say that even though I love America, I can see its downfalls. The country is headed towards a wrong direction. As a high school student, I know a lot of the same people from all of the same classes. Everyone else I see is an idiot to me. Because really, we've got a lot of idiots. \r\n\r\n[quote]Americans are an overly proud arrogant people, who glorfiy their own history. Many the debate I have had over various incidents in history where America and Canada have had an impact. And always my American counterpart has rudely disregarded my country's hand in such events. Claiming America's superiority in blind ignorance[/quote]\r\n\r\nI'm sorry to say it, but, though I respect the history of the world and all that it stands for. Americans do have a lot to be proud it. We are symbolic of individualism and ever since the 1940's, we've been bosses. I don't see where they claim superiority in 'blind ignorance'. America's done a lot. \r\n\r\nBeing a Muslim, I can tell you one of the worst things about America is it's fake diversity. We always clamor around talking about all the Asians and Black people we have running around. But really, if they're not assimilated as one big block of American mass then they're excluded a lot. \r\n\r\nOverall, though, I think, it really depends on where you live in America. I live in the third richest county in the nation, and the first and second richest neighbor my county. So my thoughts are a little questionable, seeing as where I live now -- everything is green and pretty, crime rates are dead and the area I'm in was apparently bubbled out of the recession.\r\n\r\n^ But I've also lived in Northwest Greater Houston, where I saw a lot of drugs and morons and illegal immigrants. Not fun. \r\n\r\nso overall, I think it is fair to say that America is an amazing country based on what it stands for and it's history. What it is right now is a little distasteful, but I believe it has the tools required to patch itself up and continue on, I'm not in any way expecting a demise of this great country. I think the #1 thing it needs is education, and to teach people about globalization and where America really is on the earth. I really think it's going downhill -- but as for now, America is pretty sweet.

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wolf1991

3,437 posts

Farmer

Posted May 16, '11 1:10pm UTC

Americans do have a lot to be proud it. We are symbolic of individualism and ever since the 1940's, we've been bosses. I don't see where they claim superiority in 'blind ignorance'. America's done a lot.

By no means am I saying America has not been a key player on the world stage. It's simply the attitude that goes with it. Discussing history with many Americans tends to be a heachache for me simply because they flat out refuse to believe that anyone else played a key role. A perfect example is WWI. More specifically Vimy Ridge.

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sprooschicken

1,143 posts

Nomad

Posted May 16, '11 3:40pm UTC

@Armed_Blade you say you love America for what it stands for, this (if true) is a prime example of american ignorance, to stand for something is one thing, to actually put it into practice is another, and this is where my criticism of your point about american history converge, look at vietnam, look at korea, look at the entire mess that was the cold war, the prime example that america does not uphold or protect freedom throughout the world is their absolute crushing denial and refusal to allow vietnamese to have free elections or democracy

and the cold war is the ultimate example of american idiocy, america didnt like the idea of communism, and therefore wasted money, money, lives resources and manpower doing all it could to stop that IDEA (which you were just defending) spreading, just because it was one they didnt agree with

americas histroy is one of the most disgusting shambolic affairs ive ever seen, they have seldom fought for freedom just there ultimate all consuming goal of self well fare

Now for my current view as a true grumpy angry cynical Brit! yes i am all those things yes my country has faults, and i love it! i dont however think its the greatest place in the world, as the greatest place in the world is the world, no country is superior, thats getting close to hitlers ideology, i love my country but id love to see how other people live and to see their cultures

as for america, what exactly has ever made it great? its history certainly doesnt, america is a laughing stock, a joke in many places, throughout asia its is hated, america, is filled to the most part with ignorant people, they as have been proven with statistics a wateful, boastful, proud nation, that has in fact no reason to be proud, having been to america and watching their media its seems to me that they cater to the lowest common denominator, that they encourage consumerism and self interest and importance, their entire sosciety seems to be built around these principals, as has been proven by the whole obama birth certificate fiasco

of course, i have met americans that i like, even loved, but i hate america, NOT americans

as a brit i have been constantly appalled by my country disgusting pandering to america, one sided extradition treaties etc etc.. but with the bush blair years over we seem to be moving away from americanisation, we are reclaiming our sosciety, even our independance to an extent, maybe one day we will no longer be considered the 51st state

and my final point, could an american please give me any substantial evidence as to why america is the greatest country in the world?

@Armed_Blade you say you love America for what it stands for, this (if true) is a prime example of american ignorance, to stand for something is one thing, to actually put it into practice is another, and this is where my criticism of your point about american history converge, look at vietnam, look at korea, look at the entire mess that was the cold war, the prime example that america does not uphold or protect freedom throughout the world is their absolute crushing denial and refusal to allow vietnamese to have free elections or democracy\r\n\r\nand the cold war is the ultimate example of american idiocy, america didnt like the idea of communism, and therefore wasted money, money, lives resources and manpower doing all it could to stop that IDEA (which you were just defending) spreading, just because it was one they didnt agree with\r\n\r\namericas histroy is one of the most disgusting shambolic affairs ive ever seen, they have seldom fought for freedom just there ultimate all consuming goal of self well fare\r\n\r\nNow for my current view as a true grumpy angry cynical Brit! yes i am all those things yes my country has faults, and i love it! i dont however think its the greatest place in the world, as the greatest place in the world is the world, no country is superior, thats getting close to hitlers ideology, i love my country but id love to see how other people live and to see their cultures\r\n\r\nas for america, what exactly has ever made it great? its history certainly doesnt, america is a laughing stock, a joke in many places, throughout asia its is hated, america, is filled to the most part with ignorant people, they as have been proven with statistics a wateful, boastful, proud nation, that has in fact no reason to be proud, having been to america and watching their media its seems to me that they cater to the lowest common denominator, that they encourage consumerism and self interest and importance, their entire sosciety seems to be built around these principals, as has been proven by the whole obama birth certificate fiasco\r\n\r\nof course, i have met americans that i like, even loved, but i hate america, NOT americans\r\n\r\nas a brit i have been constantly appalled by my country disgusting pandering to america, one sided extradition treaties etc etc.. but with the bush blair years over we seem to be moving away from americanisation, we are reclaiming our sosciety, even our independance to an extent, maybe one day we will no longer be considered the 51st state\r\n\r\nand my final point, could an american please give me any substantial evidence as to why america is the greatest country in the world?

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wolf1991

3,437 posts

Farmer

Posted May 16, '11 4:31pm UTC

look at the entire mess that was the cold war

To be fair, the U.S.S.R was just as responsible, along with most NATO nations.

its history certainly doesnt

A debatable point. It's foundation and recent history are indeed in question. The early 1900's were a prime time for inventions and scientific breakthroughs in America.

they have seldom fought for freedom just there ultimate all consuming goal of self well fare

Hm. A fair point. WWI was never a fight for freedom, not for America at least. And even for the other Allies, it was just a mess of lost reasoning. Germany was technically never to blame for the war. Germany was forced in due to it's alliance with Austro-Hungary and several secret alliances between neutral and Allied countries.

WWII, is a different story. However, America was not the stand alone hero, as so many people paint it to be. Operation Overlord is a prime example. The Utah and Omaha beaches were tough, but Canadian and British forces had it just as bad. Juno beach was a nightmare for the Canadian troops, but we got the farthest in land and completed most of our objectives (sorry, overly proud Canadian moment).

WWII was indeed a fight for freedom. Of course Hitler would never have taken the world, like people fear. He wasn't the greatest tactician, and pissing off Russia sealed his fate. Note: Russia is big, it takes time to gather it's peasant armies!

The Korean War is debatable. The North was backed by the Soviets, and America felt the need to protect democracy. Other allies were there too. On one hand it wasn't the American military's business. On the other hand they defended people who wanted a specific way of life.

Viet'Nam. Definately not a fight for freedom. It was a fight to stop "evil" communism. What people don't know is that the south didn't care one way or the other. However, America had been sending troops in since as early as 1954.

The current Middle Eastern conflict is a disaster. America had SOME justifiable rights to invade Afgahnistan. Iraq on the other hand...no. The U.N imposed heavy sanctions when America disregarded the U.N decision on the Iraq war. The U.S reasoning behind Iraq was a joke. WMD that were "100%" there. Turns out they weren't and America just wanted to overthrow the regime.

Now, the entire problem with the Middle East War is America isn't fighting a country. They're fighting an idea. An idea that opposes their idea. If you wish to get technical America has no right to be in the Middle East, because the people they are fighting are not part of any recognizable world government. They're terrorists, the impose terror. That is their purpose, and no matter where they hail from, they do not belong to that country, because they are just as much a threat to their homeland as they are to other nations.

maybe one day we will no longer be considered the 51st state

You'd be the 52nd. Canada is the more likely candidate.

*resists urge to burn down parliment*

[quote]look at the entire mess that was the cold war[/quote]\r\n\r\nTo be fair, the U.S.S.R was just as responsible, along with most NATO nations.\r\n\r\n[quote]its history certainly doesnt[/quote]\r\n\r\nA debatable point. It's foundation and recent history are indeed in question. The early 1900's were a prime time for inventions and scientific breakthroughs in America.\r\n\r\n[quote]they have seldom fought for freedom just there ultimate all consuming goal of self well fare[/quote]\r\n\r\nHm. A fair point. WWI was never a fight for freedom, not for America at least. And even for the other Allies, it was just a mess of lost reasoning. Germany was technically never to blame for the war. Germany was forced in due to it's alliance with Austro-Hungary and several secret alliances between neutral and Allied countries.\r\n\r\nWWII, is a different story. However, America was not the stand alone hero, as so many people paint it to be. Operation Overlord is a prime example. The Utah and Omaha beaches were tough, but Canadian and British forces had it just as bad. Juno beach was a nightmare for the Canadian troops, but we got the farthest in land and completed most of our objectives (sorry, overly proud Canadian moment).\r\n\r\nWWII was indeed a fight for freedom. Of course Hitler would never have taken the world, like people fear. He wasn't the greatest tactician, and pissing off Russia sealed his fate. Note: Russia is big, it takes time to gather it's peasant armies! \r\n\r\nThe Korean War is debatable. The North was backed by the Soviets, and America felt the need to protect democracy. Other allies were there too. On one hand it wasn't the American military's business. On the other hand they defended people who wanted a specific way of life.\r\n\r\nViet'Nam. Definately not a fight for freedom. It was a fight to stop "evil" communism. What people don't know is that the south didn't care one way or the other. However, America had been sending troops in since as early as 1954.\r\n\r\nThe current Middle Eastern conflict is a disaster. America had SOME justifiable rights to invade Afgahnistan. Iraq on the other hand...no. The U.N imposed heavy sanctions when America disregarded the U.N decision on the Iraq war. The U.S reasoning behind Iraq was a joke. WMD that were "100%" there. Turns out they weren't and America just wanted to overthrow the regime.\r\n\r\nNow, the entire problem with the Middle East War is America isn't fighting a country. They're fighting an idea. An idea that opposes their idea. If you wish to get technical America has no right to be in the Middle East, because the people they are fighting are not part of any recognizable world government. They're terrorists, the impose terror. That is their purpose, and no matter where they hail from, they do not belong to that country, because they are just as much a threat to their homeland as they are to other nations.\r\n\r\n[quote]maybe one day we will no longer be considered the 51st state[/quote]\r\n\r\nYou'd be the 52nd. Canada is the more likely candidate. \r\n\r\n*resists urge to burn down parliment*

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sprooschicken

1,143 posts

Nomad

Posted May 16, '11 5:20pm UTC

sorry in my long winded rant of a post i never got round to saying that yes the cold war was by no means entirely the USA's fault however there actions were by no means the actions of a nation pursuing peace and freedom for smaller countries, self interest all the way

hhhmmm why do you say canada is the 51st state, i can see parallels with their culture, but your prison system,election campaigns, foreign policy seem so much morr reserved and just generally more intelligent the the USA, i mean you obviously know more than me about your country

personally i would say britain has been americas ***** for a long time, as i mentioned the one sided extradition treaty basically means america can take any british citizen to prison in america whenever they want, if that doesnt make us basically an american territory i dont know what does, but now luckily obama doesnt seem to give a crap about having a special relation ship

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CommanderDude7

4,689 posts

Nomad

Posted May 16, '11 9:11pm UTC

Hmmm as an American myself I note most Americans are pretty arrogant about the US. The rest of the world doesn't matter much to them as they believe they are the top dogs of the world.

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indie55

608 posts

Nomad

Posted May 16, '11 9:40pm UTC

WWII was indeed a fight for freedom. Of course Hitler would never have taken the world, like people fear.

No but he would have gotten all of Europe.

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