I've been thinking about this for a long time now...
Everyone seems to view "God" as some great guy who created absolutely everything and loves each and every one of us individually and equally. Hell is where everyone "EVIL" goes when they die, under certain circumstances.
We are Imperfect creatures. If God made us, he purposely made us imperfect. He blames us for our sins and makes us ask for forgiveness for our sins but we sin because we are imperfect because he made us imperfect o.O
God is omniscent. He decides what happens yadda yadda yadda... So he decides beforehand if someone will go to heaven or hell, meaning we have no control of our lives? So since I'm atheist I was decided long ago that I would be an atheist and I would be ****ed to hell but I had no control of it? Sort of Fatalistic and nasty.
Mage,there is a claim that the old tribes were punished intensely because of although seeing all miracles they wanted,they turned back from ther vows or killed their prophet instead and refused God anyway.Thus today we are protected in order to not seeing obvious miracles. What do you think?
Sounds like a complete load and a shifting of blame.
Then the Abrahamic God couldn't possibly be the real God.
As far as in my puzzle,the Abraham's God is The God. I think He has been mistaught and His name had tried to be defied by some sort of authorities/organisations.
Neither, since I don't believe in him. Though my agnosticism kicks in and thinks "foe". My life hasn't gone well but I'm smart enough not to put the blame on a higher power (I have enough people in my life to do that to!). Though If he was real, he's kind of a ****.
Isn't the Jewish holy text just the Old Testament where God does a good majority of his monstrous acts such as wiping out cities, all of humanity accept a few?
yes he did those. still, he did those because of bad people who hurt other people. i dont think he ever did such a thing to a group of people based on what they are. bad people got punishment and thats it. it sais clearly that there was no one good person in those situations you mentioned. also i dont think it happened more then twice. i dont agree with the killing of people but at least it was a punishment for actions and not something that people were born with
yes he did those. still, he did those because of bad people who hurt other people. i dont think he ever did such a thing to a group of people based on what they are. bad people got punishment and thats it. (...) i dont agree with the killing of people but at least it was a punishment for actions and not something that people were born with
Don't you remember the story of Noah? You know, the great flood? How many babies were killed (if the story was true, which it isn't)?
as i said. i dont think it happened more then TWICE. i cant judge the way people act or will act so i wouldnt decide such a thing. maybe god knew they are bad and thats why he did that. a reason was stated. the people in that time might have been worse then the bad people today. what i say is that there is always a reason that is stated in there and its always because of who someone is and not what he is
Rabbit, let me ask you this. How come today, when these events occured SO often in the OT, we do not witness god magically destroying sinners? Or is it that, it's just myths and fairytales that people just won't let die and sometimes fanatically believe?
as i said. i dont think it happened more then TWICE. i cant judge the way people act or will act so i wouldnt decide such a thing. maybe god knew they are bad and thats why he did that. a reason was stated. the people in that time might have been worse then the bad people today. what i say is that there is always a reason that is stated in there and its always because of who someone is and not what he is
So basically your arguing that infants were bad (evil babies). not to mention all the animals he killed, but apparently in a sense of self importance those don't matter. Anyway God using a method like a flood is pretty piss poor to begin with. He could have just given all the bad people a fatal stroke or something.
Anyway those aren't the only cruel and monstrous acts we see God pull. For example there is always the part where God sends bears to maul kids (or teens depending on your translation) for calling someone bald headed.
2 Kings 2:23-24 (NIV) From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some youths came out of the town and jeered at him. "Go on up, you baldhead!" they said. "Go on up, you baldhead!" He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the LORD. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.
Also what of the whole things with Mose and the plagues? In that we have God killing off first born children because the Pharaoh doesn't corporate. So here we have God killing a bunch of innocent people off for something someone else did. In fact pretty much all those plagues were unnecessarily cruel to innocent parties. Even to inflict it on guilty parties in this was unnecessarily cruel. God could have just whisked Mose and his people away or put the Pharaoh and all his soldiers into a coma for a day or two long enough for Mose and group to get away.
Even accepting your claim that all of those people deserved to die the methods chosen were unnecessarily cruel and still leaves your God looking like a monster.
Rabbit, let me ask you this. How come today, when these events occured SO often in the OT, we do not witness god magically destroying sinners? Or is it that, it's just myths and fairytales that people just won't let die and sometimes fanatically believe?
not sure i understood. if i did understand then i think god just judges now and meddles (i spelled that wrong didnt i?) as less as posibble.
Also what of the whole things with Mose and the plagues? In that we have God killing off first born children because the Pharaoh doesn't corporate. So here we have God killing a bunch of innocent people off for something someone else did. In fact pretty much all those plagues were unnecessarily cruel to innocent parties. Even to inflict it on guilty parties in this was unnecessarily cruel. God could have just whisked Mose and his people away or put the Pharaoh and all his soldiers into a coma for a day or two long enough for Mose and group to get away.
i agree and i wouldnt do it that way either. still, the people wanted them to set them free and not run away. if they would just run away they would always live in fear that one day they will attack them again. everything god did in that situation was to make the paraoh give freedom to the people instead of just running away from there. (and if that wasnt enough he still chased them... i guess pride was more important then his people loss?)
So basically your arguing that infants were bad (evil babies). not to mention all the animals he killed, but apparently in a sense of self importance those don't matter. Anyway God using a method like a flood is pretty piss poor to begin with. He could have just given all the bad people a fatal stroke or something.
again, i will never know if they were really bad. but at least that is the explanation. it sais that all of the living creatures (including kitties XD) were bad. my point in this thread isnt the punishment, its the sin. even if the punishment is bad in most of our opinions the sin was still being bad and not something like racism.
[also, i know i didnt explain everything but im writing this in a rush. so.... to be continued XD
Anyway God using a method like a flood is pretty piss poor to begin with. He could have just given all the bad people a fatal stroke or something.
Considering in Abrahamic belief,when the Azrael(angel of the death) absorbing a soul the time is expanding to that subject so that may taste the death dearly or painfully according to the last breath of his/her life. Thus there is no easy death as in sleep. If you are to handle a case,you have to assume it as completely.
For example there is always the part where God sends bears to maul kids (or teens depending on your translation) for calling someone bald headed
. Since the children is not responsible from their acts in Abrahamic belief,they are claimed to directly to the heaven even if they died as atheists. And they emrace death dearly again.
God could have just whisked Mose and his people away or put the Pharaoh and all his soldiers into a coma for a day or two long enough for Mose and group to get away.
Even if these are true since bible is sending bible to hell with its contradicts, We dont know whether pharoah and his soldiers were going to continue to tyrannize over the innocent or not. Since they all seen Moses's miracles and yet they drowned where were their mind pursuing to kill Moses ?
The LORD said to Moses (LIFT UP YOUR ROD AND DIVIDE THE RED SEA: AND LET THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL SHALL GO ON DRY LAND IN MIDST OF THE SEA) EXODUS 14:15 to 17.
26. The LORD tells Moses, stretch out your hand over the sea, and cause the sea to go back by A strong wind and let the children of Israel went on dry land in the midst of the sea. EXODUS 14: 21 to 22.
27. The LORD said to Moses stretch out your hand over the sea, that the waters may come again upon the Egyptians. EXODUS 14: 26 to 29.
Even accepting your claim that all of those people deserved to die the methods chosen were unnecessarily cruel and still leaves your God looking like a monster.
We dont know yet. Maybe it was their salvation or repent for their motives. God's motives must carry deep effects since He forsee that we cannot rationally in this state of vantage point.
