The Death Sentence - Armor Games Community

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snowguy13

2,157 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 12:30am UTC

This is a very tough issue. I can easily see both sides. Therefore, I'm going to go with what God would want. I say no to the death penalty. Killing a killer doesn't justify anything, doesn't rectify anything, doesn't make anyone any better off. It's just that human nature to want to get back at someone who causes you harm. And then, as you said, time and money goes into it. How would you feel if you went to the grocery store, and at the checkout the clerk said, "Thanks! That 1% extra tax you paid will help kill someone tomorrow!" And how would you feel if you spent hours late at night filing paperwork to end someone's life?

I realize that I'm leaving out the other side, and I want to make sure you know that I'm not blind to it. However, this is a debate, and I'm supporting that point.

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destruction101

113 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 12:34am UTC

I have to agree with snowguy13[quote]Killing a killer doesn't justify anything, doesn't rectify anything, doesn't make anyone any better off. It's just that human nature to want to get back at someone who causes you harm.
I believe that everybody deserves a chance to make themselves "good" again. Ways can be changed it has been done.

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 12:56am UTC

'm going to go with what God would want.

Ha! So you are saying that you are god, do to the fact that you are only stating what you believe? It seems to be a common phenomena in politics.

I say no to the death penalty.

So your god, who genocides people many times over in the Bible, would be against the death penalty?

Killing a killer doesn't justify anything, doesn't rectify anything, doesn't make anyone any better off

And the main alternative, throwing them in a cell for the rest of their days, does some help? If anything, it possibly makes them a worse killer.

It's just that human nature to want to get back at someone who causes you harm.

Yes it is. So? Human nature can be a good thing.

And then, as you said, time and money goes into it. How would you feel if you went to the grocery store, and at the checkout the clerk said, "Thanks! That 1% extra tax you paid will help kill someone tomorrow!"

Time and money also goes into a prison sentence, where the death sentence would apply would instead be life in prison. If we could find a cheaper alternative, such as hanging, it would take little time and money. And personally, I would be rather surprised to the fact that Montana doesn't have a sales tax.

So how would you feel if they said "Thanks. That extra 2% tax will go into throwing a murderer into a horrible cell where he will likely be *****, beaten, and generally tortured for the rest of his life!"? Or in that case, what alternative do you suggest?

And how would you feel if you spent hours late at night filing paperwork to end someone's life?

Honestly, if I was certain that this guy was a murderer I would feel pretty good. Now how would you feel filing paperwork to throw someone in the previously mentioned cell for the rest of their lives?

I realize that I'm leaving out the other side, and I want to make sure you know that I'm not blind to it. However, this is a debate, and I'm supporting that point.

So you believe that your omnipotent sky daddy is on one side, but you are willing to change your mind? So you must not really believe that, as I mentioned it is just a "Well Yahweh must be on my side" kind of thing.

Now on my stance, I don't really care. If you are deciding between giving some guy life in prison or death, it really depends on the crime and the mental state of the person now doesn't it? Honestly, I can see alternatives used, such as a work camp where we can make a prophet off of them or a "rehabilitation center" if you honestly think a serial baby rapist or whatever can be reformed, until I see the data on this I am unable to decide.

It would be nice if someone could give me some numbers to work off of. If I could somehow test it's value as a "deterrent", one of the larger arguments for it, test the cost of a cheaper method, take a general idea of the population (Do to the fact that the government works for the people) etc etc in order to make an informed decision. Until then I can't really state the best idea, now can I?

[quote]'m going to go with what God would want.[/quote]\r\n\r\nHa! So you are saying that you are god, do to the fact that you are only stating what you believe? It seems to be a common phenomena in politics. \r\n\r\n[quote]I say no to the death penalty.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo your god, who genocides people many times over in the Bible, would be against the death penalty?\r\n\r\n[quote]Killing a killer doesn't justify anything, doesn't rectify anything, doesn't make anyone any better off[/quote]\r\n\r\nAnd the main alternative, throwing them in a cell for the rest of their days, does some help? If anything, it possibly makes them a worse killer. \r\n\r\n[quote]It's just that human nature to want to get back at someone who causes you harm.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes it is. So? Human nature can be a good thing. \r\n\r\n[quote]And then, as you said, time and money goes into it. How would you feel if you went to the grocery store, and at the checkout the clerk said, "Thanks! That 1% extra tax you paid will help kill someone tomorrow!"[/quote]\r\n\r\nTime and money also goes into a prison sentence, where the death sentence would apply would instead be life in prison. If we could find a cheaper alternative, such as hanging, it would take little time and money. And personally, I would be rather surprised to the fact that Montana doesn't have a sales tax. \r\n\r\nSo how would you feel if they said "Thanks. That extra 2% tax will go into throwing a murderer into a horrible cell where he will likely be *****, beaten, and generally tortured for the rest of his life!"? Or in that case, what alternative do you suggest?\r\n\r\n[quote]And how would you feel if you spent hours late at night filing paperwork to end someone's life?[/quote]\r\n\r\nHonestly, if I was certain that this guy was a murderer I would feel pretty good. Now how would you feel filing paperwork to throw someone in the previously mentioned cell for the rest of their lives? \r\n\r\n[quote]I realize that I'm leaving out the other side, and I want to make sure you know that I'm not blind to it. However, this is a debate, and I'm supporting that point.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo you believe that your omnipotent sky daddy is on one side, but you are willing to change your mind? So you must not really believe that, as I mentioned it is just a "Well Yahweh must be on my side" kind of thing. \r\n\r\nNow on my stance, I don't really care. If you are deciding between giving some guy life in prison or death, it really depends on the crime and the mental state of the person now doesn't it? Honestly, I can see alternatives used, such as a work camp where we can make a prophet off of them or a "rehabilitation center" if you honestly think a serial baby rapist or whatever can be reformed, until I see the data on this I am unable to decide. \r\n\r\nIt would be nice if someone could give me some numbers to work off of. If I could somehow test it's value as a "deterrent", one of the larger arguments for it, test the cost of a cheaper method, take a general idea of the population (Do to the fact that the government works for the people) etc etc in order to make an informed decision. Until then I can't really state the best idea, now can I?

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owlmanawesome

20 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 2:02am UTC

314d1, i think you have been a little harsh with your judgement. What you are saying is, and i dont neccessarily disagree with you on everything, i could go either way, is that depending on the mental health and crime of the patient, he may be killed, tortured for the rest of his life in prison, or have a failing attempt at reform on him or her. That means, that it could be you some day suffering this choice. by the way, for a guy on armor games, you sound like a politician. A very angry one at that. That explanis your profle pic, doesn't it?

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thugtastic

162 posts

Peasant

Posted July 14, '11 2:11am UTC

all for it on serious crimes such as 1st degree murder

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 2:17am UTC

314d1, i think you have been a little harsh with your judgement. What you are saying is, and i dont neccessarily disagree with you on everything, i could go either way, is that depending on the mental health and crime of the patient, he may be killed, tortured for the rest of his life in prison, or have a failing attempt at reform on him or her.

Isn't that what a penal system is? You can kill them, you can lock them up with other criminals in a generally horrible place, or you can attempt to reform them with the possibility of failure. Unless you see another option?

That means, that it could be you some day suffering this choice

Possibly, but I don't plan to go on a rampage either killing or raping or whatever else would get you this punishment anytime soon.

by the way, for a guy on armor games, you sound like a politician. A very angry one at that. That explanis your profle pic, doesn't it?

Clever, but have I missed your point or are you just commenting on what I said suggesting it sounds dark?

[quote]314d1, i think you have been a little harsh with your judgement. What you are saying is, and i dont neccessarily disagree with you on everything, i could go either way, is that depending on the mental health and crime of the patient, he may be killed, tortured for the rest of his life in prison, or have a failing attempt at reform on him or her.[/quote]\r\n\r\nIsn't that what a penal system is? You can kill them, you can lock them up with other criminals in a generally horrible place, or you can attempt to reform them with the possibility of failure. Unless you see another option? \r\n\r\n[quote]That means, that it could be you some day suffering this choice[/quote]\r\n\r\nPossibly, but I don't plan to go on a rampage either killing or raping or whatever else would get you this punishment anytime soon. \r\n\r\n[quote]by the way, for a guy on armor games, you sound like a politician. A very angry one at that.  That explanis your profle pic, doesn't it?[/quote]\r\n\r\nClever, but have I missed your point or are you just commenting on what I said suggesting it sounds dark?

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alexstargazer

347 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 2:40am UTC

I would have to say no to the death penalty. As snowguy said, God would most likely not support it. Now I'm not trying to justify my side with saying that it's the most godly thing to do. I am just saying that that is what makes me choose my side (not trying to bring religion into politics).

I know the figures probably wouldn't be too great either for reforming a mass murder. However, I believe that everyone should deserve a second change, and the death penalty just seems so inhumane.

Lastly,

but what if there is a man that has been tested positive for some sort of disorder that causes him to have a strong urge to kill at random times, and he was either about to be set free in your town or put to death.

Give me a real life instance in which this happened? We could all go hypothetical and create these scenarios. However, there really is no point. This kind of thing isn't going to ever happen, so it isn't relevant to deciding which side to choose.

I would have to say no to the death penalty. As snowguy said, God would most likely not support it. Now I'm not trying to justify my side with saying that it's the most godly thing to do. I am just saying that that is what makes me choose my side (not trying to bring religion into politics).\r\n\r\nI know the figures probably wouldn't be too great either for reforming a mass murder. However, I believe that everyone should deserve a second change, and the death penalty just seems so inhumane.\r\n\r\nLastly,\r\n\r\n[quote]but what if there is a man that has been tested positive for some sort of disorder that causes him to have a strong urge to kill at random times, and he was either about to be set free in your town or put to death.[/quote]\r\n\r\nGive me a real life instance in which this happened? We could all go hypothetical and create these scenarios. However, there really is no point. This kind of thing isn't going to ever happen, so it isn't relevant to deciding which side to choose.

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 2:54am UTC

would have to say no to the death penalty. As snowguy said, God would most likely not support it.

Which is just another way of saying you don't support it. I am fairly sure that your god would, do to the fact he frequently committed genocide according to your book.

Now I'm not trying to justify my side with saying that it's the most godly thing to do.

Yes you are. If not, then why the hell would you mention it?

I am just saying that that is what makes me choose my side (not trying to bring religion into politics).

Yes you are. If not, then why the hell did you mention it?

I know the figures probably wouldn't be too great either for reforming a mass murder. However, I believe that everyone should deserve a second change, and the death penalty just seems so inhumane.

So you are stating we should attempt reformation? This brings the risk of the reformation failing, and at worse, the killer being released and returning to killing, and depending on the circumstances of the holding possibly a better, crueler murderer than before. Is it worth the risk?

Give me a real life instance in which this happened? We could all go hypothetical and create these scenarios. However, there really is no point. This kind of thing isn't going to ever happen, so it isn't relevant to deciding which side to choose.

There are numerous mental diseases that may lead one to kill, or more likely to kill, as many people already know. However, quite ironically in the context this is in, there is the "insanity" plea for cases like this, which are actually used to avoid the death penalty.

[quote]would have to say no to the death penalty. As snowguy said, God would most likely not support it.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhich is just another way of saying you don't support it. I am fairly sure that your god would, do to the fact he frequently committed genocide according to your book.\r\n\r\n[quote]Now I'm not trying to justify my side with saying that it's the most godly thing to do.[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes you are. If not, then why the hell would you mention it?\r\n\r\n[quote]I am just saying that that is what makes me choose my side (not trying to bring religion into politics).[/quote]\r\n\r\nYes you are. If not, then why the hell did you mention it?\r\n\r\n[quote]I know the figures probably wouldn't be too great either for reforming a mass murder. However, I believe that everyone should deserve a second change, and the death penalty just seems so inhumane.[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo you are stating we should attempt reformation? This brings the risk of the reformation failing, and at worse, the killer being released and returning to killing, and depending on the circumstances of the holding possibly a better, crueler murderer than before. Is it worth the risk?\r\n\r\n[quote]Give me a real life instance in which this happened? We could all go hypothetical and create these scenarios. However, there really is no point. This kind of thing isn't going to ever happen, so it isn't relevant to deciding which side to choose.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThere are numerous mental diseases that may lead one to kill, or more likely to kill, as many people already know. However, quite ironically in the context this is in, there is the "insanity" plea for cases like this, which are actually used to avoid the death penalty.

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owlmanawesome

20 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 2:55am UTC

I have to agree with you, alexstargazer, about the scenario thing, even though i said it, I cant think of any real situation where that would happen. Frankly, 314d1, im getting a little tired of your attitude. What point are your trying to get? You appear to be either agnostic or atheist, a lawyer or politician, and can go either way on the death sentence, despite the fact you are clearly leaning towards allowing the criminals to be killed in a cruel and unusaul way ( the hanging you mentioned) Who Are You? What is your point?

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alexstargazer

347 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 3:00am UTC

314d1 - I was not technically bringing religion into politics. All I was saying is that that is the reason for why I support which side I do.

I can obviously tell you hate Christianity, so I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong and I am right about that topic, seeing as though you will always have to win.

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rosselhauff

2 posts

Peasant

Posted July 14, '11 3:11am UTC

I'm christian, and I support the death penalty.
Just saying.

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alexstargazer

347 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 3:15am UTC

Cool. Just because if someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they have to go against the death penalty.

But what is your reasoning for supporting the death penalty?

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314d1

3,817 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 3:20am UTC

I have to agree with you, alexstargazer, about the scenario thing, even though i said it, I cant think of any real situation where that would happen. Frankly, 314d1, im getting a little tired of your attitude.

Obliviously I don't care.

What point are your trying to get?

Ill tell you once I find it.

You appear to be either agnostic or atheist, a lawyer or politician, and can go either way on the death sentence, despite the fact you are clearly leaning towards allowing the criminals to be killed in a cruel and unusaul way ( the hanging you mentioned) Who Are You? What is your point?

Atheist, student, and could go either way on the death sentience. Though I don't personally see how hanging could be considered "cruel and unusual", it was just a suggestion of a cheaper form of execution. If I was to attempt a "humane" and cheap way, I would knock the prisoner out with some form of common anesthesia then do a firing squad or something to that effect, though I would of course have to test to attempt to find the least painful and thus most humane form of execution, which would be extremely difficult. I am 314d1, and I am just doing this for the hell of it.

314d1 - I was not technically bringing religion into politics. All I was saying is that that is the reason for why I support which side I do.

Nope, its actually the other way around. You are not going "I was for the death penalty, but then religion told me I should be against it so I am" you are putting your opinion into your deity. You are instead stating "I am against the death penalty, and so is my deity!", simply to give yourself a reason to be against it. Your not getting your opinion from the deity, you are putting your opinion onto it.

I can obviously tell you hate Christianity, so I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong and I am right about that topic, seeing as though you will always have to win.

This is a debate, that is the definition of a debate.

Cool. Just because if someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they have to go against the death penalty.

But what is your reasoning for supporting the death penalty?

So they believe in the same god, but their god tells them different things? Strange how the gods always believe the same as the person they are speaking to.

[quote]I have to agree with you, alexstargazer, about the scenario thing, even though i said it, I cant think of any real situation where that would happen. Frankly, 314d1, im getting a little tired of your attitude.  [/quote]\r\n\r\nObliviously I don't care. \r\n\r\n[quote]What point are your trying to get?[/quote]\r\n\r\nIll tell you once I find it. \r\n\r\n[quote]You appear to be either agnostic or atheist, a lawyer or politician, and can go either way on the death sentence, despite the fact you are clearly leaning towards allowing the criminals to be killed in a cruel and unusaul way ( the hanging you mentioned) Who Are You? What is your point?[/quote]\r\n\r\nAtheist, student, and could go either way on the death sentience. Though I don't personally see how hanging could be considered "cruel and unusual", it was just a suggestion of a cheaper form of execution. If I was to attempt a "humane" and cheap way, I would knock the prisoner out with some form of common anesthesia then do a firing squad or something to that effect, though I would of course have to test to attempt to find the least painful and thus most humane form of execution, which would be extremely difficult. I am 314d1, and I am just doing this for the hell of it. \r\n\r\n[quote]314d1 - I was not technically bringing religion into politics. All I was saying is that that is the reason for why I support which side I do.[/quote]\r\n\r\nNope, its actually the other way around. You are not going "I was for the death penalty, but then religion told me I should be against it so I am" you are putting your opinion into your deity. You are instead stating "I am against the death penalty, and so is my deity!", simply to give yourself a reason to be against it. Your not getting your opinion from the deity, you are putting your opinion onto it. \r\n\r\n[quote]I can obviously tell you hate Christianity, so I'm not going to try and convince you that you are wrong and I am right about that topic, seeing as though you will always have to win.[/quote]\r\n\r\nThis is a debate, that is the definition of a debate. \r\n\r\n[quote]Cool. Just because if someone is a Christian, doesn't mean they have to go against the death penalty.\r\n\r\nBut what is your reasoning for supporting the death penalty?[/quote]\r\n\r\nSo they believe in the same god, but their god tells them different things? Strange how the gods always believe the same as the person they are speaking to.

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EmperorPalpatine

9,439 posts

Jester

Posted July 14, '11 3:27am UTC

[quote]That means, that it could be you some day suffering this choice

Possibly, but I don't plan to go on a rampage either killing or raping or whatever else would get you this punishment anytime soon.[/quote]

What if you're wrongly sentenced because the public wants a quick revenge for a crime?

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notataco

189 posts

Nomad

Posted July 14, '11 3:35am UTC

What if you're wrongly sentenced because the public wants a quick revenge for a crime?

Thats actually a good question and has happened before and the only answer i have is that it just sucks to you because more then likely you will be killed even if innocent.

I've read a good bit of everyones views on this and even with the whole religion and athiest intake in the end its just right and wrong and freedom to choose what to do. It all comes down to wether or not its right no matter what your beliefs are and the way I see it it's just another form of murder. I believe It's dumb and just a fear instigater because sitting in jail for life would probably not be much better so why not just have them sit there for the rest of their lifetime?

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