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owlmanawesome
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owlmanawesome
20 posts
Nomad

Is the sentence a good or bad policy? Some states allow it, and some countries aloow it, yet others dont. Yes, I know some of might say everyone deserves to live, and most of the time i would agree with you, but what if there is a man that has been tested positive for some sort of disorder that causes him to have a strong urge to kill at random times, and he was either about to be set free in your town or put to death. What would you say? There is the unethical and the inhumane reason, but a large reason many places ban it is the cost. Some states are backed up with people on death row, because they have to pay lawyers to file paperwork, and keep those hundreds, maybe thousands, of people alive for howver long. Think, do you really want your tax dollars going there?

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314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

What if you're wrongly sentenced because the public wants a quick revenge for a crime?


The same thing that would happen with either the death penalty of prison sentience, I would pretty much be screwed. That is kind of the thing with penal systems, they are not a pleasant thing to get wrong. But if you are able to rely on the courts, then this shouldn't be a problem. If you can't rely on the courts, then fix them first.

It all comes down to wether or not its right no matter what your beliefs are and the way I see it it's just another form of murder.


Murder, by definition, is illegal killing. Since this would be sanctioned by the government, it can not be considered murder. Or, if we are going by this logic, and prison or reform sentences given would be considered "kidnapping" or "Holding against one's will" and it would be impossible to inflict any form of punishment on them.

I believe It's dumb and just a fear instigater because sitting in jail for life would probably not be much better so why not just have them sit there for the rest of their lifetime?


There are, of course, many possible ways that all forms of punishment could be bad. In this case, not only are you locking them in a cell where they are quite likely to be ***** and assaulted by their fellow inmates on a annual bases, but they run a small risk of escape in which they would be worse criminals then before. There is also a price factor, up-keeping a prison for the rest of their lives may be more expensive then some of the cheaper forms of execution.
notataco
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notataco
189 posts
Nomad

Yeah you made alot of good points there man. Paying for prison upkeep is ridiculous. I don't agree with the death penalty but i don't see a legitimate way of fixing it or making a better punishment to replace it so i can't say take it out just that i dont agree lol

EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,439 posts
Jester

But what if a few months after the sentencing someone else gives a confession to the crime (or crimes) and you're cleared?

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

But what if a few months after the sentencing someone else gives a confession to the crime (or crimes) and you're cleared?


Then I probably would have gotten *****, mauled, etc as I have been saying. Hell, it could turn a normal man into a criminal, if I recall the prison experiment correctly.

But I will assume that this is an extremely unlikely scenario, why would they assume I did it? Once again, that would be a problem with the courts not the punishment. And then if somehow I was convicted, why would they admit to the crime if they where getting off? Did they for some reason assume that they would rather be in prison then me? With criminals like that, crime wouldn't be a problem.

While we are getting on the "What ifs", what if the criminal escapes? Not only would you have a criminal on your hands, but it is possible that prison had hardened them into a worse criminal. It may have even set up connections with other criminals escaping with him, creating a gang of effective, ruthless, and bloodthirsty criminals who probably don't want to be captured again. And whats to keep them from running away? If you knew you would spend your life in prison, would you not try to escape, knowing that they can't punish you any more then they already have?
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

Ha! So you are saying that you are god, do to the fact that you are only stating what you believe? It seems to be a common phenomena in politics.


I don't think it works that way. What if I saw a user post something that I ardently disagreed with? I really want to reply back to this statement, but I'm not sure as to how. So... I'll do what 314d1 would do here. Now 314d1 may be a fictitious person that I've only learned about from books or from what other people have interpreted him to be like. ...and he may be a real person that I've held witness to (thus I might actually know what he would do in that situation).

Thus, doing what I believe 314d1 would do (because I view him as a model AG citizen) would not make me 314d1... It would just mean that I am going with what I think the opinion (from some prior knowledge of the character) of 314d1 would be.

If he/she thinks that the God he/she worships is a loving God (and their God is real to them), then they could justify making a decision based off of what they believe their God stands for.

If someone asks a child to drink alcohol (beer, vodka, or whatever), and the child then says, "I'm going to go with what I think my (biological)Father would want me to do... and not do it," then that doesn't mean they believe they are their father.

I'm not sure that even the people who lie about their God believing/promoting something just to further their ideals are saying that they are God. They are drafting their ideal behind the power that comes with using their God's name.

If a friend of mine dies and I'm left with deciding what to do with his estate... and I decide something based off of what I believe he would want done with his estate, then I'm not claiming to be him. I'm claiming to know enough about this person to be able to give an accurate judgement in place of him.

Claiming to know God and claiming to be God are two different things.

Let's try and not laugh at and ridicule people for having a different opinion than our own. Your arguments will achieve more if you are less abrasive. All I see this possibly achieving is making the other person more angry at you and less likely to pay attention to what you're actually saying behind all of the "HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!'s".

now back on topic... (this isn't perfect symbolism... but I'm trying) I view humanity as akin to a bunch of ants adrift in a pool of water. In order to survive, we have clumped together. Society is this clump. If this clump doesn't function properly (or at all), then a large number of the ants could die. Any one ant could throw a monkey wrench into the gears and inner workings of the clump's machinery and hurt/kill other ants. If and when the (potential) perpetrator (tries to do) does something that will endanger other ants they should be stopped and/or punished.

...now getting away from ants a little... I believe that the death penalty serves 2 purposes.

1. Punishment for past crimes
2. Prevention of future crimes

If someone has gone out and had forced intercourse with a bunch of little kids and then chopped them up and put them in a suit case (saw a case on the news tonight w/ that) and threw them in a local dumpster... then I believe that person needs to die. I'll gladly kick the stool out from under him. I don't want him doing that to more children. If you send him to jail, they'll most likely tear him to pieces for being a child molester/killer anyway... rumor has it that prisoners don't take kindly to those kinds of people... I personally don't think that individual should live much longer anyway for what he's already done. If he's dead then he won't be getting free housing, food, clothes, etc for life at the expense of the taxpayer's dollar.

People will undoubtedly now be like,"who are you to decide the fate of another human being?" ... well I happen to be a fellow human being that has to try and survive this hell hole called life for as long as I can... and people like him are just making that all the more difficult for the rest of us. If he's dragging people under, then we need to stop him somehow. If there's a God I have to answer to because of that decision, then I'll do so when that time comes. If there isn't, then I'm still not going to lose any sleep over a truly guilty bad person like that being put to death... I'd pull the lever if it meant knowing other people would be safer (and remain alive.)

Casting someone like that off of the "society" boat would only be like casting off ballast. We'd float higher and easier for it. I don't think we should put people to the axe just because of what their opinions and beliefs are. Everything would run more smoothly if everyone believed as you did... but variety is what makes it fun... we just need to keep the really bad people from doing really bad things.

inb4 "hahahahahahhahahahah what are bad things??? JEEEEZUS???????" I am implying things like forced intercourse, murder, child abuse, and things of that nature. A religious person and an Atheist should all be treated equal here. If they are guilty of doing those things (without being forced to do so... alluding to prior 80+ year old Nazi guard being tried conversation from a month or so ago)then they are punished... otherwise, they go about their business

I hope some of that made sense.
thugtastic
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thugtastic
162 posts
Peasant

314d1 you don't seem to see anybody but your own point, do you ever question your own views or beliefs.

314d1
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314d1
3,817 posts
Nomad

I don't think it works that way


Still, no one cares what you think. Its what happens, no matter what your opinion is on the subject.

Now 314d1 may be a fictitious person that I've only learned about from books or from what other people have interpreted him to be like. ...and he may be a real person that I've held witness to (thus I might actually know what he would do in that situation).


Lets say that was true. Now lets say that I killed millions throughout that book as worthless punishments for things as petty as looking back at the place you lived all your life while your husband takes you away, or not killing all the people I told you to. If I did that, would you really think I would be against the death penalty?

If he/she thinks that the God he/she worships is a loving God (and their God is real to them), then they could justify making a decision based off of what they believe their God stands for.


Then why does this justification only happen after they have made this decision? It seems that god agrees with them no matter what the hell they are talking about. Apparently your god agreed with everyone from Hitler to the tea party, and says something different to every one of them about political beliefs. If this was actually true, then wouldn't more people have a relatively same idea of what their god would want, rather than the god believing whatever the person believes?

If someone asks a child to drink alcohol (beer, vodka, or whatever), and the child then says, "I'm going to go with what I think my (biological)Father would want me to do... and not do it," then that doesn't mean they believe they are their father.


No, but they believe that their biological father would want them to do what they want to do. If this kid, who had never actually met his father and only knew him from reading his mother's diary which he never fully read, it would be wrong for him to claim "Well my father would be against the death penalty, so I am!", which would be false unless he decided to right that in his book. The book you are referring to has nothing against the death penalty, quite the opposite it states giving the death penalty to a tone of people, using stones. When the book says "Kill everyone who marries while not a virgin, who is a witch, who doesn't believe in our god, who works on the sabbath, who.." etc etc, then that god believes in the death penalty.

I'm not sure that even the people who lie about their God believing/promoting something just to further their ideals are saying that they are God. They are drafting their ideal behind the power that comes with using their God's name.


Stating that he was stating he is the god is a sarcastic way of saying that his god always seems to agree with the person speaking. You do realize that I know they don't think they are their own god? Pronouns FTW.

If someone has gone out and had forced intercourse with a bunch of little kids and then chopped them up and put them in a suit case (saw a case on the news tonight w/ that) and threw them in a local dumpster... then I believe that person needs to die. I'll gladly kick the stool out from under him. I don't want him doing that to more children. If you send him to jail, they'll most likely tear him to pieces for being a child molester/killer anyway... rumor has it that prisoners don't take kindly to those kinds of people... I personally don't think that individual should live much longer anyway for what he's already done. If he's dead then he won't be getting free housing, food, clothes, etc for life at the expense of the taxpayer's dollar.


But using lethal injection, which is a rather costly execution as well as the most common to my knowledge, it could quite easily be cheaper just to throw him in the prison you mentioned.

314d1 you don't seem to see anybody but your own point, do you ever question your own views or beliefs.


...What do you mean by that?
owlmanawesome
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owlmanawesome
20 posts
Nomad

314d1, you would do well as a lawyer.

Jefferysinspiration
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Jefferysinspiration
3,139 posts
Farmer

This thread is fairly recent (In terms that the last post was made a week ago)

snowguy13
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snowguy13
2,157 posts
Nomad

Then why does this justification only happen after they have made this decision? It seems that god agrees with them no matter what the hell they are talking about. Apparently your god agreed with everyone from Hitler to the tea party, and says something different to every one of them about political beliefs. If this was actually true, then wouldn't more people have a relatively same idea of what their god would want, rather than the god believing whatever the person believes?

I've been taught that my God is kind and forgiving. This doesn't mean that he "agrees with everyone from Hitler to the tea party". The goal of my religion is to strive to be as forgiving and understanding as God, something that we as humans will probably never be able to do; something that Hitler obviously couldn't do.
Honestly, I was either way. If a murder occurred in my community, I may want them done away with. But since my God is kind and forgiving as I have always been taught, I can say without a doubt that he wouldn't want more people killed under any circumstances. This is supported further by me having been taught that he wouldn't want more people killed under any circumstances.
Sonatavarius
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Sonatavarius
1,322 posts
Farmer

No, but they believe that their biological father would want them to do what they want to do.


If I wanted to do crack, then my father would not want me to do it. Some parents want their children to follow the more moral and less self destructive route... as opposed to pursuing the things that will hurt them and be against the law. If every parent wanted their child to do what it is that the child wanted to do, then we would have more kids dead from sticking things into electrical outlets. I've seen a few parents dive across a room to stop their children from sticking forks and such into outlets.
We need to inform those parents that they are serving their children a grave injustice by stopping them from doing things that could hurt them then.

The mentality is moreso "I don't understand the situation fully, but I feel that so and so does... and I really trust them and their opinion. I'll be doing what they would do. Let's pretend that my father died before I was born. I grew up being told that he was one of the most honorable and respected people around. He advocated forgiveness and understanding. I might not have been given examples for every application of life, but I go about living by the perceived standard I have of my father because I think he was right.

Now, I believe most "Christians" don't pattern their life after the the part of the Bible you are describing. What is more-so in their minds is the fact that Jesus supposedly stopped a stoning from happening. If Jesus was supposedly God, then the standard by which these Christians view things would have their God against the death penalty.

But using lethal injection, which is a rather costly execution as well as the most common to my knowledge, it could quite easily be cheaper just to throw him in the prison you mentioned.


Allowing him to be ripped to pieces by other inmates is "inhumane" and against the law.

Still, no one cares what you think. Its what happens, no matter what your opinion is on the subject.


I don't agree. What people don't care for is your crass, rude, and abrasive posting style. ...but I would wager money on the fact that if we could "subscribe" to other AG users that even you would have people subscribing to you who wanted to know your opinion on things regardless of your short comings. I was saying that they aren't claiming to be God by basing something off of what they think God to stand for. ...regardless of them knowing everything about God or not. ...hence the "I don't think it works that way."
There not being a universal consensus on beliefs still doesn't make them think they are God for thinking differently than other people who claim to believe in the same God.

Laws and rules are just some person or group of people's opinion on how things should be done. Opinions matter. An opinion can change the mind set and view of tons of people.

I guarantee you that I have other AG users who read threads just because they see that I have posted in it. I can also say that you probably have people who avoid threads just because they see that you have posted in it. It may very well go both ways for us... but I'd say we're a little heavy in the areas described in the first two sentences in this paragraph. Their "caring" may be arbitrary and effectively meaningless, but I think that some people still care about other people's opinions. There have been other people who have been cast out of the AG kingdom for being rude and crude. I'd rather that not happen to you... I care about your opinion, so try and play nice plox

That being said... I do see how Jesus could be shown to be against killing... stopping the stoning... and stopping the disciple from fighting off the people that took Jesus... but I might be wrong.
alexstargazer
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alexstargazer
347 posts
Nomad

God chooses no side of the political spectrum.

People will always use Him to back their view up and say it is right because 'God supports it'. But really, no one knows if He will support it or not; they just say he will to justify themselves.

Now, since I justified my side by saying it was what God would do, I will restate why I don't like the death penalty.

I believe in second chances, and helping others out. I think we should at least give them some form of rehabilitation and see if it works. I know it will not work on everyone, and it would be very expensive. People can change from what they used to be.

I am reading a book right now - Incognito

In this book it tells about the secret lives of the brain (or how the unconsciousness works). At one point, the author gives a real life example.

A father was perfectly normal his whole life. Then, suddenly he behavior changed and he started sexually abusing his children. He was sent to prison for a couple of years. At some point they did surgery on him and found a tumor on his brain. They removed the tumor and his actions returned to normal.

Later on, he started sexually abusing his daughters again. It turned out that the doctors missed part of the tumor and it grew back. They removed the whole thing the second time and he went back to how he used to be.

Lastly, instead of sending all criminals to prison, I believe that we should have a personalized rehabilitation for them. Each person is different, so we can't just have the same program for everyone and expect it to work.

Again, I know this would be very expensive. I think doing that would be somewhat better than just killing someone for their crimes.

alexstargazer
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alexstargazer
347 posts
Nomad

Sorry for the double post, just have to add one quick thing.

giving the death penalty to a tone of people, using stones. When the book says "Kill everyone who marries while not a virgin, who is a witch, who doesn't believe in our god, who works on the sabbath, who.." etc etc, then that god believes in the death penalty.


Tell me where is the Bible that it says to kill someone for those reasons? It says those are sins and you shouldn't go out and do them. However, God will always forgive people if they ask. I don't believe it says to kill someone who works on the Sabbath, who doesn't believe in God, who is a witch, etc.. in the Bible.
Jefferysinspiration
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Jefferysinspiration
3,139 posts
Farmer


Tell me where is the Bible that it says to kill someone for those reasons


Maybe not word for word the reasons listed, but the death sentence is throughout the bible - here's a link my professor gave me on the topic during class one day.

Here.

As shown, the death penalty is mentioned in the old testament throughout exodus, in Leviticus, Romans, etc.
And John also mentions it in the new testament.
Wyrzen
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Wyrzen
325 posts
Peasant

Obviously the death penalty has many ups and downs. I personally support it. Being a christian, I see it as speeding them along to their personal corner of hell. In an unrelated note, I do not support solitary confinement.

I don't know why we have to bring the Lord into every one of these threads, but I believe he doesn't cause the genocides and other misfortunes, he just allows them to happen. Its a trial of our faith. Sometimes terrible things happen to good people.

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