ForumsWEPRCapitalism or Socialism?

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Roger721
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Roger721
1,100 posts
Nomad

Hi everybody. The capitalism and the socialism are two ways of government.

This thread open the discussion: do you prefer capitalism (from countries like the USA?) or socialism (from coutries of the now-defunct URSS?)?

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DarinisShadow
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DarinisShadow
2 posts
Nomad

Capitalism will always be riskier, but it is easier for nations to rise from the ashes as well, whereas look in countries like Greece where it had socialism from day one, and there is chaos. You've got to think bigger than you already are thinking if you're a socialist.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

I hope you're kidding. Capitalism is all for monopolies. Everything that capitalism stands for helps monopolies.


I don't think so. Capitalism is not all for monopolies. Explain as to why many capitalist countries have anti monopoly laws?
As I previously said
'Monopolies are against free markets, even though it is out of a free market that a monopoly is made.'
Capitalism helps monopolies grow, but monopolies themselves endanger consumerism and the growth of more markets through competition. It is out of this that monopoly controlling acts are made.

Did you really just say that? With more taxes, people have less money to spend. Less individual spending means slower economy. Btw, increasing taxes actually reduces federal income, because more and more people decide that they don't want to pay the increasing taxes.


He said a little bit of taxes. And on both points, you are wrong.
In terms of the rich, they have a lot of savings. A tax increase would put no dent in their spending ability.
Furthermore, though for the middle and lower class a tax increase can hinder some spending, much of that tax can go towards government jobs, still making up for it in economic terms of cash flow. [So in terms of economic burden, I support Obama's current idea on raising taxes on the rich]
Lastly, about the 'more people not paying taxes'. -- I have no idea where that is coming from. Tax evasion isn't particularly legal, but possible. Even then, there is no statistical evidence, ever, that an increase in tax has lead to lower government revenue.

Hm let's see... The US has like no free social security, it has no free Medicare, it was barely any welfare. What was the US's debt again? 14.772 trillion?


Some people are blind


It feels like America is getting closer and closer to a socialism (Because of all the Democrats messing things up), and it's taking a toll on our economy. Of course, there is more risk with capitalism, but there is also more freedom.


That is only because we have the money for it. Providing for people isn't socialism. I'm not saying it's a great thing that half of our budget pays for things like Social security, Medicare, Medicaid, etc. -- but it isn't wrong to have it if we are pulling in the money for it [Which we aren't. Which means we should tax the wealthy]. The idea that we are hurting job creators is ridiculous, if someone wants a business, he'll hire someone in hopes of getting a profit from their work later, not hire someone because he has the extra dough in his back seat.
loloynage2
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loloynage2
4,206 posts
Peasant

Did you really just say that? With more taxes, people have less money to spend. Less individual spending means slower economy. Btw, increasing taxes actually reduces federal income, because more and more people decide that they don't want to pay the increasing taxes.

You couldn't be more wrong. Like Armed_Blade said.

I don't think so. Capitalism is not all for monopolies. Explain as to why many capitalist countries have anti monopoly laws?

Because those countries aren't 100% capitalists?
NoNameC68
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NoNameC68
5,043 posts
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Can't really see how raising a little bit taxes could do anything but help the economy. Btw, most of the US's debt comes from the republicans.


Most of us work for a living. When you take taxes from those people, they must work that much more to make up the loss. Remember, we work because we want money. We want money to pay for things we want and need. Taking it from us to pay for things that don't directly effect us, things we don't want, or things we would rather buy ourselves is very disgruntling.

Capitalism is all for monopolies. Everything that capitalism stands for helps monopolies.


Not in the slightest.

Capitalism is about having a free market. If the market isn't free, it isn't capitalism.

Monopolies happen in the "free market" when bureaucrats create laws that limit the amount of business or raise the cost to own a business so smaller businesses can't compete with the fat cats.

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Moe
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Moe
1,714 posts
Blacksmith

Monopolies happen in the "free market" when bureaucrats create laws that limit the amount of business or raise the cost to own a business so smaller businesses can't compete with the fat cats.


You mean like the unregulated free market America had a bit over 100 years ago with people like Carnegie and Rockefeller?
harryoconnor
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harryoconnor
77 posts
Peasant

[Monopolies happen in the "free market" when bureaucrats create laws that limit the amount of business or raise the cost to own a business so smaller businesses can't compete with the fat cats. ]

In a completly free market, the larger a company is the more cost efficient it becomes so is able to out compete smaller rivals, eventually becoming a monopoly. Laws and higher taxes for the rich are needed to give smaller businesses a chance.

GoblinD
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GoblinD
322 posts
Nomad

It doesn't really matter if they are more efficient for the sake of the average person. What matters is that they shouldnt be allowed to have no competition and therefore charge the people with whatever they want.
In Israel for example, the cellphone companies had this monopoly alliance thingy thats now being crushed by a few small companies that decided to actually charge a reasonable price from the constumers.

Armed_Blade
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Armed_Blade
1,482 posts
Shepherd

You mean like the unregulated free market America had a bit over 100 years ago with people like Carnegie and Rockefeller?


Yep. The worst was Vanderbilt. He just had all the railroads, so he screwed America's farmers for like 70 years. There was also JP Morgan, who bought Carnegies company, who's name is still in the Chase bank. And Stanford, who made his own university, like Vanderbilt. America's got so many things named after rich people of the 1800/1900's its unreal.

In Israel for example, the cellphone companies had this monopoly alliance thingy thats now being crushed by a few small companies that decided to actually charge a reasonable price from the constumers.


Yeah, same thing in the US. AT&T was broken up in the 70's I think, but now it and Verizon are so enlarged. In comparison, in China, cell phone companies offer 1GB network speed rates, and ATT's best is 5MB -- if there were more options and more competition, all of these companies would invest in order to give higher speeds at reasonable rates to make our countries communication better.

Most of us work for a living. When you take taxes from those people, they must work that much more to make up the loss. Remember, we work because we want money. We want money to pay for things we want and need. Taking it from us to pay for things that don't directly effect us, things we don't want, or things we would rather buy ourselves is very disgruntling.


That is fair to say. We have a debt though. So its something we have to pay for, whether you would rather pay for it or not. You can argue over whether we should have entitlements currently, but as for paying off the debt, it is unfair to cut systems like Social Security for people that have been paying into it for years. There is a debt and we have to kill it, so the country's people should do their share by paying.
xfirealchemistx
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xfirealchemistx
370 posts
Nomad

Capitalism. Competition is/should be a good thing.

Xeron77
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Xeron77
25 posts
Nomad

Capitalism, specially for 3rd wolrd countries like mine, Uruguay.
Now we have a left goverment, i hope we dont end up like chavez in venezuela or fidel in cuba

Roger721
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Roger721
1,100 posts
Nomad

Just reminding that Cuba is not socialist: Fidel himself stated that he was democratic and disliked communism.

Anyway, long story short, the competition on the capitalism and the lack of initiative on the socialism make they have good points and bad points... Hard to decide...

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,256 posts
Regent

Capitalism: let's invest and make our economy work. *years later* We have debts? Great, that means we invested a lot! Let's go on and invest more, we will pay the debts sometime later. *years later* Let's just raise the debt cap so we can go on spending money... etc.....
If you choose capitalism, you choose debts.
Anyway give me a system without stock market, and I'm already much more happier than now.

1138
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1138
173 posts
Nomad

Capitalism is incommon fortune and Communism is common poverty


Well, thats MY opinion.
SecondMan2012
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SecondMan2012
23 posts
Nomad

Well Socialism is proven to be a failed system. Capitalism is a rollercoaster ride, but its a working rollercoaster ride.

EnterOrion
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EnterOrion
4,220 posts
Nomad

let's invest and make our economy work. *years later* We have debts? Great, that means we invested a lot! Let's go on and invest more, we will pay the debts sometime later. *years later* Let's just raise the debt cap so we can go on spending money... etc.....


Did you forget that the US Government isn't a private company? It appears you did.

Businesses in capitalism that go into debt fail. Always.

Capitalism and socialism can work side by side very easily. Example: The entire western world.
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