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Battlefield 3 beta is obviously trying to attract CoD fans, and they are attracted.
R.I.P. Battlefield community.

Didn't I see you earlier say that you was a BF fan?
If so, thank god the BF community died.

Even though it didn't.

It is NOT attracting CoD players, it is giving a small dose of what is to come (that isn't anywhere near the entirety of a BF game) with much better gunplay and styles included.

I played a match, and ran around trying to figure out how to knife, crouch, go prone, throw a grenade, etc, etc. So I quit, when to the menu, and went to 'options'. All I found was a slider to change from 'classic', to 'lefty', and 'reverse', and 'reverse lefty', but NO FREAKING MENTION OF WHAT ANY OF THE BUTTONS DID.

I think that is going to be absent in the console retail version, but I should I say that Key Bindings was explained entirely in Battlefield 3 Beta for the PC

Why do some teammates have blue names, but others have green names?

Blue = Teammate
Green = Squadmate

because no where could I find anything that explained what anything did.

Beta is beta.

So I ended up going 1-32, 3-28, 4-18, 1-38, and 1-34 in my first five games.

4 of those 5 games were absurd, no offense but I'm fairly certain you're playing the game incorrectly
Do it much more cautiously and progressively... really all you need to do

I got spawn killed far more in BF then I ever did in CoD

This is not a problem I've seen... At all. :/

Even worse is trying to put attachments onto a gun, and figuring out where your new shotgun goes. Is it an engineer, or an assault weapon? How do I even find it?

These are things that generally are known by being active on stuff like BF forums.
SMG's like the PP-2000 or UMP-45 and Shotguns are for all classes. Carbines are for Engineers unlocked as you play that class, Assault Rifles for... well duh.
Snipers for Recons and LMG's for support.

Also, versatility is a thing I disliked about Bad Company 2. The scopes weren't a problem - if you're taking a playstyle you should be prepared to adapt and there are ways to do that (mostly through your secondary and dexterous use of more unorthodox surroundings) although I would really like being able to have a small class system so when I wanted a long range weapon with my Support Kit (and the accessories to properly outfit it) I don't need to dwindle for 30 seconds sorting it out, at which point the situation could change.

It's funny watching the little kids from Call of Duty switch over to Battlefield and complain about how horrible it is just because it isn't as quick-paced as Call of Duty is.

First. I'm 14, be careful when mentioning age as half the time you could be wrong and heavily contradicted when you try and use it as an insult.
Second... CoD gamers that do say that aren't any worse than the BF community as witnessed on the forums, and even ingame. If you want me to go in more depth, just ask.
But if you continue to rip into CoD players in a Battlefield thread I will come down on you like a sack of bricks. ^^

- H

First. I'm 14, be careful when mentioning age as half the time you could be wrong and heavily contradicted when you try and use it as an insult.
Second... CoD gamers that do say that aren't any worse than the BF community as witnessed on the forums, and even ingame. If you want me to go in more depth, just ask.
But if you continue to rip into CoD players in a Battlefield thread I will come down on you like a sack of bricks. ^^

I didn't mean offense towards you; I wasn't directing it at you neither. I was speaking generally. I figured that would be pretty clear since I didn't mention you at all in the post...
Also, perhaps we have a different audience we play with, but I have noticed what I stated. I don't check the forums, though, but in-game I do hear complaints about Battlefield vs Call of Duty.

I didn't mean offense towards you; I wasn't directing it at you neither. I was speaking generally. I figured that would be pretty clear since I didn't mention you at all in the post...

Not me specifically of course, but the inaccurate statistics / insults / etc on age from most people usually influence their judgement when say... I debate or simply talk with them. :/

I don't check the forums, though, but in-game I do hear complaints about Battlefield vs Call of Duty.

If it's between the two games I generally don't mind, because speaking in the game isn't something I do much (it's generally "gl hf" at the start and not much else) but on these forums and on BF3's even I have tackled against pretty much everything mentioned between CoD and Battlefield, including both communities and CoD, it's solidified and when people dredge up "their idea" when it's a quick search to see insight on others', it gets tiring.

please don't kill me Highfire

I'll try to refrain.

which is minor tweaks won't stop the slow downward spiral of this gaming Juggernaut.

I do agree, heck, if you look at the first 30 pages of CoD: Put it Here me and ChillzMaster consistently ripped into it - but that was on topic, and being as that thread was the only applicable option, it made sense to hit it where everyone went as well.

will people just not play them anymore because they aren't good?

No doubt the CoD:Elite is an attempt to solidify a hardcore fanbase. Kind of like how World of Warcraft works, you pay a subscription and build up your account, where till the point you leave the game you feel like you've lost so much.

because there are really no changes in MW3 except a few weapons, attatchments, maps, and a new game mode.

They would do much better keeping all the good things from previous games like:
1) Modding
2) Zombies (as much as I don't care about it)
3) Dedicated Servers
4) Fantastic hit registration (credit to MW2)

and build from that, instead they find their own little things to apply and it doesn't work out for them.

Battlefield 3 has changed a lot, its more realistic, and it has a fully destructible environment, which MW3 wont.

To be fair there's less destruction in Battlefield 3 than what's in Bad Company 2 probably. Especially in Operation Metro where simple things like bins can't be destroyed - it's kind of annoying in its own way.

I meant MW2, sorry. (modern warfare 2 was the most epic game ever)

MW2 had several problems, to name 3:
1) Lack of Dedicated Servers
2) Lack of any proper balance
3) A backward story

The first one, especially seeing the success of CoD4's (Tek9 Stevy a few years ago) professional (Lucker, I think a couple of years after that) scene. (Earlier this year, at the i43 as told, by someone I know )

- H

With spawn-killing? Are you serious? I've been spawn-killed in every match I've played at least twice. It's rediculous.

Two questions for people who have a problem with spawn killing:
1) Where do you spawn when killed?
2) What console do you play when it happens?

but a Beta is released to gain interest, not just to work out the bugs

It's for the people already interested (as part of the target audience) to test the game. Beta isn't a glorified marketing scheme or anything like that - it's to enhance the game ONLY.

Just that people have treated the idea of a beta in different ways. :/ Sadly.

Graphics: Not as fantastic as I had hoped.

This was one of your first points? I'd like to state 2 things about the graphics right now:
1) They are not optimized, at all. I have 8GB, quad-core on x64bit Vista with a 560 GTX and 8800GeForce (I think), and a steady framerate only comes from Medium or lower graphics settings.
2) It's better in more up-to-date versions.

And for graphics itself - rarely is it the focus point of a game. The aesthetic of Battlefield 3 is high-contrast, flaring spectacularism. The graphics help show that.

Granted, it has an advantage over CoD in the "destructable landscape" play, which adds a new element to hiding and discourages camping, but that didn't make up for the graphics.

At this point you're literally saying that graphics > gameplay.
What... the fudge?

They were good, but not as good as a third installment should be.

... I don't even know where you're going with this.
Call of Duty 3 doesn't even has good graphics as Crysis 1, therefore it's a bad game.

Is that your point?

That, and funnily enough MW3 is likely to have worse graphics - as, you know, the eighth CoD and the THIRD Modern Warfare game.

What I CAN complain about is that when you change sides, you change guns. All of them. Sure, it's more realistic. Russians would shoot Russian-made weapons, US Army would shoot M16s. But there is a distinct difference in the stats of the guns.

When you consider the M16A3 and the AK74M are the only faction based weapons, there isn't a huge problem, especially being the stats are relatively the same as assault rifles anyway.

Seriously. A huge section of war games are about guns. It's kind of cruel to take away your guns when you're on a different side.

It only takes away a maximum of 4 weapons each time. Not a big deal, honestly. Whilst I agree the stat balancing would be help (hell, even the appearance of the weapon is related to balance), it should be noted that it also encourages growing on other weapons.
You know the attachment unlocking for weapons? They're not the same for an M16 or an AK74M, or the M4A1 and AKS-74u. This lets people decide on what weapon they want to use after that that suits their needs.

Also, it's about combined arms. The weapons of each class don't make much of a difference, it's the accessories and the effects of the weapons that count.
Tactical Lights
Lazer Sights
Scopes
Three most important things for your weapons, Tactical Light = Close Range
Lazer Sights (it also increases hip fire accuracy) = Longer to long range (depending on the weapon)
Scopes - Any range, really.

His name came up on the screen. Why do I have to wait for my guy to die for a few seconds, stare at the player that killed me for longer, then re-select my class again before I spawn??

Battlefield is a heavily strategic game. You have a few options:
1) Plan your actions after you are revived.
2) Plan your actions / loadout when you are taken to the screen.
3) Observe the situation and act from there.

The time needed for clearing out an area and then getting revived is essential as well. It also gives a harsher penalty for death - this is a cautiously played game.

Call of Duty completely dominates B3 on this. "Press X to respawn", or watch a 5-second killcam of the guy shooting you. If you need to change a class, do it then. It's a literal waste of game time. I want to kill this enemy, not stare at his face.

I'll point out a few things.
1) Your objective isn't to kill him, and the apparent need for vengeance isn't healthy in this game. If that's what it is (which is the way you seemed to have put it), you're doing it wrong. ^^
2) You already seemed biased when you said: "Personally, I wanted to download Battlefield 3 Beta because I've always played CoD, and I can't make a good argument without actually playing Battlefield." It's difficult to say your argument was with the best of heart when you consistently pinpoint your mindset. You didn't play the game because hell bro, it could've been fun, you seemed to have the first thing in your mind is whether or not it overruled CoD.

Compared to what would be naturally owned, CoD and Battlefield blow entertainment out of the water. You didn't treat it like that, you're battling the two against eachother when there was no call for such a thing, because now you've not a properly developed idea of the game (as it seems).

Waste of game time? Any efficient Battlefield player would realize that death is a large hinderance but also be able to rack up plenty of score over his "comrades" by the time he got to a new proper position. Often I could spend 5 minutes dazzling around as a Recon on Bad Company 2, just trying to get to a new spot or to a specific place an enemy could be at, occasionally looking at the scoreboard to see myself highlighted in Orange.

Classes: Confused. As of now, I can only edit my classes during combat, without leaving the battlefield. Sniper food. Is this going to be the same in the final game? I don't understand why it's set that way, besides that maybe you need a specific gun RIGHT NOW, so change it RIGHT NOW before you- oh, you're dead. 12 seconds on the bench. Between the edit-class-in-combat option and the watch-enemy-for-10-seconds then pick-class-again option, it's like B3 is trying to stop us from playing.

The Class System is quite a problem. Mostly because of all the situations you would need to adapt to. Would you say the amount of classes present in CoD is enough? It definitely isn't. The amount of VIABLE playstyles in CoD is rediculous as well.

I don't know what it'll be like in the final game, but when DICE realize that this is going to grow more and more as a problem, I think they'll hit the nail on the head. Right now, they've excellently refined infantry combat and reintroduced the combined arms warfare... hell to the yeah?

Ideally, a Beta should also attract other players from other games.

No... just test out the game for what it should be. Anything else is a BONUS, not a goal. Battlefield is a Battlefield game, and Operation Metro was an attempt at as previously mentioned, testing the infantry combat and technical issues before retail release. The playstyle of a CoD player and Battlefield player is very different, and that was apparent when you also said:

For a starting one, it changes elements several times, from a park to a city block to underground tunnels and metro stations. It's fun to swap between open combat and close-range locker rooms. So B3B has a good map.

That isn't the ultimate point of the game, you don't seem to realize the true scale of a BF game.

CoD players on Battlefield = profit.

That's EA's agenda, not DICE's.

The Beta should try to get everyone's attention, not just the Battlefield lovers alone.

On the contrary, it seeks to serve a balance between revolutionary or new-to-the-series features and maintaining its core. BF3 is an iterative shooter in that it isn't a ground breaking one, because that was Bad Company 1 with destruction. Battlefield 3 blends BF2 and Bad Company 2 to produce the best of both sides. Judging from the beta, it really has.

Also, what is this "much better gunplay and styles"?

Suppressive Fire
Bullet Drop
Sustained fire severely decreases accuracy

There is nothing revolutionary about any of the Battlefield material, besides control set-ups being altered slightly and the classes being more difficult to grasp/edit.

Funny, I actually tackled this in one of my previous replies. It's an iterative shooter, it did not clean up the problem with Classes. Those problems weren't in Battlefield 2 because there were 6 classes that quite frankly weren't all that special because all the features were so thinly split between them.
Bad Company 2 had very little in comparison, such as weapon accessories and other things like the Mortars and so now.

One was the ability to hold a knife as a weapon. That was clever.

How exactly is that clever? Look at the scale of the map in even Operation Metro - only if you've caught a very nice flank (which in Op Metro is very difficult) you'd be able to use it in hand effectively.

The other attachments, such as the laser, were also something I wanted to see in CoD a while ago.

It was used most effectively in Battlefield because of what it does to your face. In CoD4 singleplayer it does nothing but look cool, in Crysis 1 and 2 it does the same but also reveals your position. In Battlefield it has an effective use.

But seriously. Battlefield 3 has set the bar for MW3 very, very low.

I'm almost certain you're influenced by this "war" between the two games. Very... freakin' heavily.

Gunplay is more difficult, fun to use, rewards you for shooting at the enemy to keep them down (but not dead). Rewards you EXACTLY for how much you hurt the enemy, lets you stick with Squad Members and use Radio Beacons to properly manage a frontline.

Small examples of the exemplary Infantry Warfare in Battlefield.

Planting and Defusing bombs is NOT original. They did make some changes and additions, but, personally, the Briefcase bomb was much more fun than "Hold A to plant bomb" and wait for the circle to fill up.

You can defend yourself on the BF3 version, though. You get found out on a SMALL map with FAST-PACED style warfare when planting the bomb, you die, very simple.

With this you can manauveur more, keep tabs on what's going on, plan a little bit easier, and hell, just doing suppressive fire could be the most helpful thing in the world for you.

"The actual game will be soooo much better than Beta" is a weak excuse, because this is exactly what it will look like, just with more maps, vehicles, the campaign, etc.

... What exactly is your understanding of games? This is one of the reasons I hate discussing games with my Scottish friend - he is so blind to the effects some things have.

Vehicles and maps, being the main ones. They are absolute GAME CHANGERS. They are nothing less in Battlefield either. It's not a "just" with the maps or the vehicles - they both severely influence how well the game goes, and that is incredibly obvious.
As I've said, it's a SMALL dose of what is to come, it is actually inhibited as well being as it is one aspect of many, and those many aspects come together to form the cohesive play that BF2 and hopefully BF3 is and will be.

Sorry Highfire. Not impressed, not interested.

Quite frankly you didn't seem interested from the start.

and had a good teamwork element.

Good doesn't cut it. The bonuses for kill assists and suppression assists for example have a huge effect on the metagame. You, like my Scottish friend, judge on what is there, not what it means or its effects.

The bipod - MEH. It's not a huge addition is it? But look at it, it allows territorial control, accuracy at long range (the stabilization for snipers is essential as well) and much more effective suppressive fire. It gives you the option of changing your Foregrip / Heavy Barrel for that ONE accessory and using your perk that would've been Suppression for... I don't know - Ammo?

1 example of MANY.

But hey, for the record, the "CoD vs Battlefield" argument is never going to die or be resolved, much like "Xbox vs PS3". So don't get your hopes up. Haha.

The funny thing is it actually has been... many times. Not much on these forums as there will always be people with an account of 2 posts that say "I like CoD" and never return, but others have worked out swell. Reason seems to be going much better for them.

I find it strange how such politically, religiously and scientifically involved people with massive intelligence and / or wisdom can be on the WEPR of these forums. But the Video Games section is as shallow as a puddle, especially in comparison to other game sites I've seen. :/


Let's hope that image works.

- H

How exactly is that clever? Look at the scale of the map in even Operation Metro - only if you've caught a very nice flank (which in Op Metro is very difficult) you'd be able to use it in hand effectively.

Okay this isn't the best option in metro, but after the release, 25 or 26 okt. you get a lot more maps where it can be useful to carry the knife as a weapon.

But long post.

Disconnecting on Battlefield 3 Beta happens ALOT but it'll be fixed and ts definitely worth it.

Haven't had that. :/
What's your platform, how often, and etc?

When I think of Battlefield, I think of large, middle-eastern type maps with vehicles roaming freely. Unfortunately, it was the exact opposite.

Did you go through what I said or just make your post?

The map was very small and constricted,

That's kind of the point ^^

plus, the lack of vehicles was a BIG disappointment.

They're huge, definitely, but are you looking at this map for what it was or for what you wanted it to be?

And constantly getting shot from god-knows-what direction was very aggravating.

Awareness and good positioning ensures this never happens... :P

Basically, it was CoD with different controls.

Not really. You still have the contrasting lights and attachments which changes close quarter combat significantly, with outside combat still being very different to that of CoD.

When you guys say CoD, it seems to be like the features are familiar, but you guys don't seem to realize how different they are when actually playing - i.e the metagame.

They should have picked a more classic BF map to represent BF3 in the beta.

Maybe. I think it would've been a much better decision. What's even more strange is their removal of the Caspian Border map.

This constricted map may be a turn-off to people who are new to BF (like me) and existing BF players.

Possibly. But I don't think people new to BF or FPS' in general would go into the Beta... doesn't sound normal to me :/

- H