NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
Because Jesus Christ is God, but not the Father. From Scripture we can tell that the God of the Bible is one God in three Persons. The Father is God, the Son (Jesus Christ) is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. All three are self-existent and eternal and possess the attributes of God. However, the Father is not the Son, the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father.
I don't like the idea of a trinity. If you believe in this, than God gave himself over to the angry Jews so they could kill him and humiliate him to save us of our sins. And he was on this earth for all those years. And the last part is a contadiction religion makes up to confuse everyone. When everyone is confused, they tend not to question much, especially when it deals with god.
There's actually no contradiction here; three in person, one in essence. Confusing? Perhaps, because there is nothing truly analogous. We shouldn't expect to understand everything about an infinite God.
A crime against an infinite God deserves an infinite punishment. You do not want to think that your sin is as serious as God says it is, so you deny God's existence instead of accepting His forgiveness.
That's like the second or third time you have straw-manned my reasons for not believing your God exists. As for the crime it makes even less sense for an infinite God to be so concerned about finite matters that he would torture someone for eternity.
You do not want to think that your sin is as serious as God says it is, so you deny God's existence instead of accepting His forgiveness.
I really don't see how accepting his forgivness helps you in any way, because either way you are going to be in quite a misreble place for quite a while.
There are things that God cannot do precisely because of who He is
If he has limits because of who he is, then he is not all powerful.
Look,obviouslythere's a catch.Nobody can be all-powerful and all-good altogether.If you're all good,then there are certain things you can't do,so you're not all-powerful.And if you are all-powerful,then you certainly can't be all good,because some of the things someone that is able to achieve anything does,are bad...
Look,obviouslythere's a catch.Nobody can be all-powerful and all-good altogether.If you're all good,then there are certain things you can't do,so you're not all-powerful.And if you are all-powerful,then you certainly can't be all good,because some of the things someone that is able to achieve anything does,are bad...
We have clarified in the thread that our ''Good'' and ''Bad'' are either just perceptions, or may not conform to God's.
That's like the second or third time you have straw-manned my reasons for not believing your God exists.
I am not saying that is why your purport to deny God, and, really, I think you believe you don't believe in God, for a number of (what you think are) logical and/or scientific reasons. However, I believe that you are in self-denial for the purpose of excusing yourself.
As for Hell, God is justified in His punishment even if you don't like the idea of it. Although, for the record, Hell is not a torture chamber.
Nichodemus, I would deny that morality can be separated from or cogently understood apart from the nature of God.
Look,obviouslythere's a catch.Nobody can be all-powerful and all-good altogether.If you're all good,then there are certain things you can't do,so you're not all-powerful.And if you are all-powerful,then you certainly can't be all good,because some of the things someone that is able to achieve anything does,are bad...
God is both all-powerful and all-good, but just because he has the power to do something bad does not mean he will do it
No, personally, I can't. The Bible describes Hell, but it's hard for me to determine what parts of the description are metaphorical and which are literal. The best I can conclude is that Hell involves suffering and separation from God. What more would I need to know?
Sir_lla, could you please tell us how you think it's justified that for a finite offence there is an eternal punishment? I fully agree that punishment in and of itself isn't bad if it's what's deserved, but eternal punishment is inifinitely more harsh than any sin you could commit in your limited time alive.
I would disagree with the premise that limited offenses necessarily have limited weight. Because the offense is against God, the offense is deserving of infinite punishment.
Because the offense is against God, the offense is deserving of infinite punishment.
See, that right there is just not, well, just. If you commit the sin of say...lust (Which everyone has because it's built into us, go figure God makes us sin) you automatically are worthy of eternal punishment based on what he made you as simply because you don't worship him? That's not right.
Because the offense is against God, the offense is deserving of infinite punishment.
See, that right there is just not, well, just. If you commit the sin of say...lust (Which everyone has because it's built into us, go figure God makes us sin) you automatically are worthy of eternal punishment based on what he made you as simply because you don't worship him? That's not right.
