NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
Sorry for the non-constructive comment. Just posting opinion. 1. This would be really benefit the ChristianityFTW forums. I've heard they're trying to make the world's longest thread. 2.Answer meant-to-be rhetorical questions is pretty fun, haha.
What if you really go to basics and probably an annoying basic of evil=being the devil good=being god
But on what basis would you judge and characterize them as good and evil? Just for being what they are? Seems a pretty meaningless and flimsy classification to me, which would in no way have any impact on us.
Imagine if everything was good all the time and bad things never happened. I feel it would leave us predictable and not enlightened.
If only ''Good'' occurred, there would be no ''Good'' but merely a ''Thing'', since there is nothing else to compare to and to lift it to superior status of ''Good''.
The way I see it murder is death of a body but not a soul. The soul lives on through us as a whole.
Ah....that leaves the questions...What is a soul? Do we have a soul?
Okay, how is it a contridiction? If he knows everything, then he knows what learning feels like. He doesn't need the experience he already knows. He's never learned, doesn't need to, but knows what it feels like. As humans we need to experience something to know what it feels like. To say god must do the same is to put him down to human capabilities.
So can't you say that the thing left to learn is the learning itself? and that by learning learning he learnt it?
Read my earlier rebuttal! I'll paste it here for your convinience.
I can anticipate the evasion that will be made: god has the ability to learn, but doesn't have any opportunity to use it, since he already knows everything to be known. The easy rebuttal to that evasion is: if that is so, then god does not possess the ability to use his ability to learn; therefore, god is not all-powerful. Otherwise, if he has the ability to use his ability to learn, then he must be able to cause a situation in which there is something for him to learn. That would mean that he doesn't know everything, since that would include knowing everything about any situation that he might possibly create.
Because... I think that that is a good question, he mapped out everything so he dosen't have to improvise, so why wouldn't he just have those people not born instead of killing them later in life?
Don't think of things only by its end. The process matters as well. He might want the people killed to experience life for whatever reason He dictates so before they die. Otherwise we can also take your logic, extend it to everyone else and ask why are we even created if we're all dead in the long run?
So can't you say that the thing left to learn is the learning itself? and that by learning learning he learnt it?
If he learnt something, he's not perfect. If he's not perfect, he can't judge us.
Okay, how is it a contridiction? If he knows everything, then he knows what learning feels like. He doesn't need the experience he already knows. He's never learned, doesn't need to, but knows what it feels like. As humans we need to experience something to know what it feels like. To say god must do the same is to put him down to human capabilities.
He does need to know what it's like. He needs to know human capabilities. Otherwise: 1. It's a contradiction with his omniscience 2. He can't judge us because he does not know everything.
People believe in G-d and convince others of their own worthlessness and helplessness. If a person has no hope for himself, if he is weak and poor in spirit, he goes to G-d. He needs someone who can solve everything for him. He gets used to that, without the permission of the G-d he can't do anything. He believes that the G-d watches his every breath, every action, every thought, and can't take a step without being afraid to offend the G-d.
People are being brainwashed and they blindly believe in everything that shepherds say. They turned into zombies and don't try to think (even for a little perod of time) about all inconsistency they've been told.
Can't he achieve onmiscent after leaning how to learn?
Christianity believes that He was omniscient right from the beginning. Which means He can't have learnt anything.
Just a random thought....transport anything we've discussed here and people back in time say 500 years, and we'll all be burning on stakes by now.
People believe in G-d and convince others of their own worthlessness and helplessness. If a person has no hope for himself, if he is weak and poor in spirit, he goes to G-d. He needs someone who can solve everything for him. He gets used to that, without the permission of the G-d he can't do anything. He believes that the G-d watches his every breath, every action, every thought, and can't take a step without being afraid to offend the G-d.
People are being brainwashed and they blindly believe in everything that shepherds say. They turned into zombies and don't try to think (even for a little perod of time) about all inconsistency they've been told.
Try and find the right thread for this sort of thing. Not here. Also, do not generalize on people and religion or you'll likely to be set on by people.
I can anticipate the evasion that will be made: god has the ability to learn, but doesn't have any opportunity to use it, since he already knows everything to be known. The easy rebuttal to that evasion is: if that is so, then god does not possess the ability to use his ability to learn; therefore, god is not all-powerful.
Okay. I was just arguing him being all knowing. That alone is possible.
He does need to know what it's like. He needs to know human capabilities.
I didn't say he doesn't know human capabilites, I just said he doesn't has to follow the same limits humans have.
But on what basis would you judge and characterize them as good and evil? Just for being what they are? Seems a pretty meaningless and flimsy classification to me, which would in no way have any impact on us.
Yes, it dosent impact anyone or anything, it just is there.
Read my earlier rebuttal! I'll paste it here for your convinience.
thanks So after reading that, I found that there is no way to work around that quote you put there.
Just a random thought....transport anything we've discussed here and people back in time say 500 years, and we'll all be burning on stakes by now.
At least I wouldn't be the one holding up the computer and monitor.
Yes All-knowing is possible, but all-powerful...different case.
So all powerful and all knowing can never be in the same person UNLESS we are all all-knowing also and learning isn't actualy there because we are just relizing what we already have in our brains. So learning is just a figment of our imagination so it can't be aplied to him.
So all powerful and all knowing can never be in the same person UNLESS we are all all-knowing also and learning isn't actualy there because we are just relizing what we already have in our brains. So learning is just a figment of our imagination so it can't be aplied to him.
Erm....how about no? Why would say...the theory of relativity already be in our brains?
We learn new things when we come across them, if we never have contact with such things, we would never know of the existence of such things, nor learn anything about them. For example, before Columbus chanced upon America, no one in Europe knew anything about it. They only learnt about its culture, people, etc, after they came across it.
So learning is just a figment of our imagination so it can't be aplied to him.
Any premises to support this, pardon, daft conclusion?
Try and find the right thread for this sort of thing. Not here. Also, do not generalize on people and religion or you'll likely to be set on by people.
Sorry, I thought here people can freely write what they think about G-d and related stuff. I didn't try to encourage someone to believe or reject the faith by posting that message. Just gave food for thoughts to people. Sorry if I offended somebodie's feelings.
Remembering means you came across something before. If such a thing is true, it means that potentially, every single fact or discovery to be made is going to be made. I don't see any proof for this one, what you claim, is still merely a statement.
Furthermore, by remembering, it doesn't mean you are all-knowing or all-powerful, since obviously amnesia slipped in and was able to undermine one's omnipotence.
Furthermore, by remembering, it doesn't mean you are all-knowing or all-powerful, since obviously amnesia slipped in and was able to undermine one's omnipotence.
But it did rule out having to learn something. But then you have the other bad attibute which is remembering, because like you said remembering undermines omnipotence and god supposively has to know and feel everything so how could he feel remembering if he knows everything and is all powerful.
