NOTE: This is not an anti religion post, simply a philosophical and age old debate.
Ok, so very very basically, here is an issue with the typical Christian view of God, a view shared by other religions, aside, however.
God is all good God is all powerful (omnipotent) God is all knowing
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
BUT - Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, i.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
BUT - if we want to still hold that he is all good, then there must be another reason murderers and tsunamis exist, but what? Maybe God created the world, and is not powerful enough to intervene. Then God is no longer all-powerful. Either that or he is powerful enough to intervene, and simply doesn't want to, in which case he is not all good. What do you think about all this?
But it did rule out having to learn something. But then you have the other bad attibute which is remembering, because like you said remembering undermines omnipotence and god supposively has to know and feel everything so how could he feel remembering if he knows everything and is all powerful.
It might not rule out all-knowing, but it certainly damages one's case for being all-powerful.
Well, what you pointed out are just more contradictions on His supposed omnipotence and omniscience.
Btw, just to clarify my opinions; I am an atheist, but I like to take things more logically instead of rabbidly denouncing religion. Hence some of my statements might seem to side with the religious side of the coin. Doesn't mean I am.
Yea I did, I can't really find any more ways to get around statements because remembering things can't be taken out as easily as learning things.
Well...for it to be taken out, it needs to be proven true, or at least have a strong basis. On what basis therefore do you think that we know everything, just we need to remember it?
Well...for it to be taken out, it needs to be proven true, or at least have a strong basis. On what basis therefore do you think that we know everything, just we need to remember it?
On the basis of god being all powerful and all knowing, only basis, it was just some way to get around that quote so it has no fact to back it up or anything. But then agian we are talking about god here, so why does anything need facts to back it up since god definatley dosen't.
Using the argument of free will: It is a fact that humans make their own choices, in fact the majority of our lives are spent making choices. These choices shape our futures, and who we are as individuals. God in his omniscient capacity, can see all of these paths, not any singular one, it is our free will the defines what path we choose in the end.
Please note, that I'm basing this all on the fact that whenever a choice is made, the timeline- diverges, and creates a new off shoot, in essence there is an infinite number of realities, each completely different, or just slightly different.
Using the argument of free will: It is a fact that humans make their own choices, in fact the majority of our lives are spent making choices. These choices shape our futures, and who we are as individuals. God in his omniscient capacity, can see all of these paths, not any singular one, it is our free will the defines what path we choose in the end.
Please note, that I'm basing this all on the fact that whenever a choice is made, the timeline- diverges, and creates a new off shoot, in essence there is an infinite number of realities, each completely different, or just slightly different.
Yes but according to the Divine Plan, everything is planned beforehand. Even if there are other possibilities.
Link? All I can seem to find is related to an ancient Persian religion, which doesn't have much to do with Christianity.
Also, free will cannot exist if everything is preordained, that justifies the existence of fate/destiny. Regardless of how you look at it, if one exists, the other can't. And because free will is one of the founding tenets of the Christian Religion, that's the one I'm going with.
God has a divine plan for us. He knew us even before we were in our motherâs womb. No one is an accident. When a child is born, there are two courses his life could take: Godâs course or the devils. Do you know that not only has God set a course or plan for our lives, but the devil also has a plan? But God desires for us to walk in His plan, because His blessings and favour would follow us all our lives. When we walk in his will, He will prosper us: there is joy, peace, prosperity. God will make sure that our needs are met. âSurely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD foreverâ. Psalm 23:6.
Christianity isn't entirely based on free will, also different branches have different views on free will.
I suggest you start using the term Divine Providence in order to save some confusion.
The principle goes to great lengths to simply deny science.
In any case, the way it's describing free will, is really just saying that free will is an illusion, and God controls all, which brings us back to the main point of omnipotence.
God set a course or plan for our lives, but the devil also has a plan?
So this is saying that not everything is fully orcestratd and that we still have one choice, devil's plan or god's plan? Although once you choose one path, you no longer have choices.
More likely it's already planned what you choose,(Devils path/God's path) so you don't really get much of a choice yourself... Everything you did and will do is already plannedâ¦
If God is all good, then why does he make evil things happen? Why does he create murderers and tsunamis?
He doesn't create those things the devil does.
Some say God creates us with the choice to do good and bad that we may have free will.
So, in this case God creates us without knowing if we'll choose to be good or bad people, or even if we will believe in him/her.
So God doesn't know if we're going to be good or bad, so God is not all knowing.
its true that he gives us free choice, but he already knows if you're going to be a good or bad person.
Imagine we still want to hold that he his all knowing, I.e he knows everything about everything. This means God creates us knowing that we're going to be good or bad people, this means that he condemns those he creates bad to a life of sin and ultimately hell, so he can't be all Good.
God doesn't force anyone to be bad or good and being bad or good doesn't mean that you'll go to hell. Hell was originally made for the devil and his angles not for us, but since god is perfect and can't be around sin,(he can't be around sin because of his own choice it's not a lack of power) and since spirits cant just roam earth, if we don't except jesus as our savior(which cleans our sin) theres only one place left for them to go which is hell.
