We may use cookies to help customize your experience, including performing
analytics and serving ads.
Learn More
Forums → WEPR → [necro]Jehovah Witnesses
| 46 | 7656 |
This is something that I've learned today about (you guessed it) Jehovah witnesses.
-They do go door to door and leave pamphlets.
-God counts days differently than we do. For example one of God's days could be millions of years for us, so Jehovah witnesses can believe in dinosaurs and Adam & Eve with all of them being created in the first seven days (even though it isn't mentioned in the bible).
-I also learnt that Jehovah witnesses don't believe in an after life where people goto heaven or hell, but believe that they'll be resurrected on a paradise earth that God will make.
-God's real name is Jehovah like the Devil's name is Lucipher.
-They've memerised a very large portion of the bible and can flip to it pretty quickly when asked to.
-Jehovah witnesses are a branch of Christians (I thought they were Jewish lol)
Just as an fyi there were three questions that I've asked that they didn't answer very well;
1. Why doesn't God create this paradise earth for everyone now to get rid of all this cruelty and injustice on this earth?
2. Since God is allegedly all knowing and all powerful why did he create Eve knowing she'd eat that apple?
3. How could God have been here for all time without ever being created?
P.S. I learnt this because they came to my door today and as a fyi I believe there is a creator, but don't know which creator created everything. I believe this because I CAN'T believe that everything we see around us was created by a big hot dense universe just expanding (the Big Bang Theory I think) because how can a universe be created from nothing? Then again how could the first creator have been created from nothing?
As you can see I digress lol
- 46 Replies
1. Why doesn't God create this paradise earth for everyone now to get rid of all this cruelty and injustice on this earth?
My mom's JW and explained that one as many people today won't want to give up their ways and will still be greedy, materialistic, cruel, violent, power-hungry, etc. The way for getting rid of all the cruelty and injustice at once will be armageddon. When the evil is eradicated, then peace will be restored.
This is something that I've learned today Jehovah witnesses do go door to door and leave pamphlets. I also learnt that for God he counts days differently than we do. For example one of God's days could be millions of years for us, so Jehovah witnesses can believe in dinosaurs and Adam & Eve with all of them being created in the first seven days (even though it isn't mentioned in the bible. Sorry if that's confusing. I also learnt that Jehovah witnesses don't believe in an after life where people goto heaven or hell, but believe that they'll be resurrected on a paradise earth that God will make.I'm asking why doesn't he do it now? Preferrably he would've done it already
-God's real name is Jehovah like the Devil's name is Lucipher.
Gods real name is most accurately translated as YHWH. We can only guess at it's true pronunciation which is where we get Yahweh from. Though some letters can represent more then one letter when translated from one language to another Y and W can also represent J and V so another translation of the name would have been JHVH, best pronounced as Jehovah. I think the YHWH is regarded as more accurate since J and V don't appear in the Hebrew language, I may be wrong about that though.
As for Lucifer being the devils name it is never actually used in that context in the Bible. The translation of the name is Morning Star. In Isaiah 14:3â"20 (the passage talking about the fall) this is actually in reference to a Babylonian king and not the devil. In 2 Peter 1:19 the name is again referring to the morning star itself and not the devil. In Revelation 22:16 jesus is referred to as the Morning Star but not as Lucifer even in the Latin translation.
The connection between Lucifer being Satan seems to have stemmed from some sort of interpretation given to the Isaiah passage sometime in the 3rd century.
I learnt this because they came to my door today and as a fyi I believe there is a creator, but don't know which creator created everything. I believe this because I CAN'T believe that everything we see around us was created by a big hot dense universe just expanding (the Big Bang Theory I think) because how can a universe be created from nothing?
First off you pretty much answered your own question here as it didn't come from nothing. Yes you might be able to find some physicists saying "a universe from nothing" but keep in mind this is a reference to nothing in terms of quantum mechanics which is regarded as something due to virtual particles.
Now as to not accepting the beginning of the universe starting from a singularity, like it or not this is where the evidence currently leads us to. Even if you want to insert a God somewhere into the process.
You would have to be left with denying the facts at hand here. Even if you think we are not interpreting the data correctly here, just using a completely unsupported claim that a god even exists make no sense to do. Let alone taking it a step further and claiming this entity created the universe.
Then again how could the first creator have been created from nothing?
Thus is the paradox of god. You are forced to make a claim that the universe started from something even more complex which in tern forces the question that if something complex has to come from something more complex then we would need something even more complex then god.
If we eliminate god we can then start from a most basic point and work our way up to a more complex form as everything develops.
I'm asking why doesn't he do it now? Preferrably he would've done it already
Because he likely doesn't exist.
I'm asking why doesn't he do it now? Preferrably he would've done it already
It's basically a bet that mankind can't rule itself without injury to show that being on our own isn't a good thing. Right now the world has free will, uninterfered by God, because that's what Adam and Eve wanted (to be their own rulers). By letting it play out and showing how evil it gets, it's much more effective than simply correcting the problem from the start and forcing worship. It's kind of like a parent (God) telling his children (Adam and Eve) not to run into traffic (touch the forbidden fruit) or something bad will happen (they'll die). They run into the street (touch the fruit) in defiance when someone (satan) tells them that something good will happen (You'll positively not die and will be like God; knowing good and bad). They get hit by a car and are injured and experienced pain (die). Satan was basically saying people are foolish and worthless and should be smited. God chose to defend mankind and allowed us to see how bad stuff gets without His guidance. The reason He didn't end it yet is because society hasn't entirely fallen yet. Every country will join together under a single corrupt government (like an authoritative version of the UN) and the majority of people will accept/support that government/system. That system will then globally persecute anyone upholding faith in the true God. The people who do not denounce their faith and continue to openly practice religion in defiance of their government will start to be hunted. Then armageddon will happen.
-I also learnt that Jehovah witnesses don't believe in an after life where people goto heaven or hell, but believe that they'll be resurrected on a paradise earth that God will make.
There is a heaven where God lives with the angels, but not everyone goes there. The majority of upright ones will live on the paradise earth, but 144000 will go to that heaven and rule alongside god. The main scripture that supports the paradise earth is the common Lord's Prayer Matthew 6:9-10:
"Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven."
The prayer means God will rule the earth as he originally planned.
@MageGrayWolf
When I said that bit of God being Jehovah I was only meaning that, that was what the Jehovah witnesses said to me.
Where exactly do you think this big hot dense universe came from? Magic? Do you just think that it was always here? Because that makes just as much sense as believing a God was always here (as Christians believe).
Thus is the paradox of god.Oh, I caught a mistake that you'll probably admit to, it's God with a capitol G lol!!!
And I concur with you here.
It's basically a bet that mankind can't rule itself without injury to show that being on our own isn't a good thing. Right now the world has free will, uninterfered by God, because that's what Adam and Eve wanted (to be their own rulers). By letting it play out and showing how evil it gets, it's much more effective than simply correcting the problem from the start and forcing worship.That is absolutely horrible. Giving and making humans endure tens of thousands of years of pain, crime, poverty, diseases, illnesses, cancer, bankruptcy, tragedies, (like homes burning down or forest fires) domestic violence, people cheating on each other, (breaking some peoples hearts (theoretical heart that is)) people being sent to prison for crimes they didn't commit etc... Have I made my point? Look at the horrible things on this planet... Can you really forgive a God for whatever reason allowing this to happen?
Look deep down in you, think about it before you answer, can you believe, worship and LOVE a God like this?
Sorry for my double post, but thought I'd say sorry for the late response
Where exactly do you think this big hot dense universe came from? Magic? Do you just think that it was always here? Because that makes just as much sense as believing a God was always here (as Christians believe).
Given the properties of matter/energy and how we are dealing with a point where time as we know it is equal to zero it is possible it was "always" there. There are other hypotheses I have heard as well which could be equally possible. We simply just don't know. Though the answer of magic, which is what is being claimed with a god has at every turn been an inaccurate answer each and every time. We have only made advancements in our knowledge when we put aside the magical thinking.
Oh, I caught a mistake that you'll probably admit to, it's God with a capitol G lol!!!
Nope I wasn't being specific to the Abrahamic God there so it gets the lower case g. :P
Given the properties of matter/energy and how we are dealing with a point where time as we know it is equal to zero it is possible it was "always" there.How did the matter/energy get created then?
I find it crazy that you can say it is possible that it was "always" there (the matter/energy) while saying there is no chance in God or magic...
I agree with the "we simply just don't know" statement though. So until we get irrefutable proof that there is no creator. There is just as much likelihood that there was God or god that created us or that this matter/energy (that sprung up from nowhere or was always here) correct?
Nope I wasn't being specific to the Abrahamic God there so it gets the lower case g. :PYou know you made a grammar mistake, in one paragraph you use a capitol g and in another you use a lower case g. You're just making excuses for this atrocious grammar of yours
Now as to not accepting the beginning of the universe starting from a singularity, like it or not this is where the evidence currently leads us to. Even if you want to insert a God somewhere into the process.
If we eliminate god
Because he likely doesn't existThe question wasn't directed at you lol Btw by you saying he is further evidence that you did make a grammar mistake of the lower case g!
Sorry if any of that was confusing, I'm quite illiterate you see. Some might call me a simpleton
How did the matter/energy get created then?
Might not, just changes states. I'm saying might since on a quantum level conservation of mass may be violated. But let's say it is required that it be created, we again could only answer this with "I don't know" rather then insert a claim of a being that exists who does it. Unless we have evidence to support this claim we could just as easily insert any number of claims all with equal validity.
I find it crazy that you can say it is possible that it was "always" there (the matter/energy) while saying there is no chance in God or magic...
Our observations of indicate that matter/energy might not require being created as it violates conservation of mass. Our observations of space and time show them to be connected. At the point of a singularity we don't have space thus no time (at least as we know it) So we have observable data to indicate this as a possibility. We do not have any observable data to indicate any sort of god. further more we have observable data to show that magic as an explanation has batted zero in the field of explanations. This does not mean I'm saying that God using magic has no chance though. I'm saying there are many other possibilities that much better fit our observations that would first need to be ruled out and an observation of this being would need to be made.
So until we get irrefutable proof that there is no creator. There is just as much likelihood that there was God or god that created us or that this matter/energy (that sprung up from nowhere or was always here) correct?
No, we have observations of how matter/energy and time behave that could allow one explanation while we don't have that for God. but like I said there are other hypotheses that could also be plausible.
You know you made a grammar mistake, in one paragraph you use a capitol g and in another you use a lower case g. You're just making excuses for this atrocious grammar of yours
Your right I did, but it wasn't in the part you were quoting.
Sorry if any of that was confusing, I'm quite illiterate you see. Some might call me a simpleton
How about instead consider yourself a blank slate to build on. Building critical thinking skills can improve this.
Because that makes just as much sense as believing a God was always here
No, it actually makes more sense, if you ever study physics in college, you'll understand
Look deep down in you, think about it before you answer, can you believe, worship and LOVE a God like this?
How I love the irony in your sentence... You have basically said that God allowed all the bad in the world to happen, and yet, you ask us again if you would love a god that allowed that to happen
How did the matter/energy get created then?
Physics 101: Matter can not be created and can not be destroyed
How I love the irony in your sentence... You have basically said that God allowed all the bad in the world to happen, and yet, you ask us again if you would love a god that allowed that to happenI didn't say I loved this God now did I?
Physics 101: Matter can not be created and can not be destroyedCrazy lol... Nothing can't have just always been here with no beggining. That's to illogical. A paradox I know
I didn't say I loved this God now did I?
Awww I wanted to iron that sentence. Bleh you ruined my chance
Crazy lol... Nothing can't have just always been here with no beggining. That's to illogical. A paradox I know
*cough* Same case with God *cough*
Awww I wanted to iron that sentence. Bleh you ruined my chanceI'm to good for you to do that
*cough* Same case with God *cough*Quite so. So why choose to believe in an atheist point of view when you can choose to believe in a creator with a possible afterlife involved?
Not too fond of any door to door proselytizing types. My religious beliefs are my own, and they are personal. I dislike, and I mean intensely dislike, having some strangers come to my house for the purpose of religious chatting.
Thread is locked!