Forums → WEPR → Heaven and Hell?
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I am catholic so I believe that there is heaven and hell. I do beleive that you have to do good in this world to be able to go to heaven but if you do evil and bad more than good in this world I do believe that you will go to hell.
Heaven it is hard to concept the thought of living for eternity in heaven and that everything would be perfect and everyone would be nice and kind.
Hell it is also very hard to think that you will be punished for many years until getting the chance to go to heaven. Also you could be in hell for eternity suffering if you do very bad things in this world.
What is you thought on heaven and hell?
Do you beleive in heaven and hell?
Do you think you will go to heaven or hell?
Is God really real?
Discuss, it can be short or long answers or views.
- 811 Replies
I am mostly atheist, but I believe that there is some truth in every religion. Of course, every different religion has different beliefs on what happens after death: heaven/hell, reincarnation, etc.
Anyways, I think that Heaven is a goal that people of believing religions should live up to, or a piece of hope so that religious people won't be terrified of death: something to do after dying. Hell, I believe, is just there for the purpose of being the opposite of heaven. Everything has an opposite, and therefore Heaven must have one to. It's a place where bad people would go, so that they would not taint the souls of the good that live in heaven. A place that is said to be worse than death, so that people cannot kill themselves and be forgiven for everything.
What are some Bible fallacies/contradictions?
MGW would know a ton offhand, but for starters, did Judas buy land with his payment for betraying Jesus, or did he throw it down for nothing?
What are some Bible fallacies/contradictions?
Not really the topic for this so I will just leave you with these links to get you started.
http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/page/bible-contradictions
http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/contra/by_name.html
I am mostly atheist,
There isn't such a thing as being mostly atheist. You're either an atheist or not.
Anyways, I think that Heaven is a goal that people of believing religions should live up to, or a piece of hope so that religious people won't be terrified of death: something to do after dying.
Is living for a false hope really a good thing? The fear of death in most cases is not lessened by believing there is a heaven and such a belief can result in a negative impact in the way people treat the life they do get.
Everything has an opposite,
What's the opposite of chicken flavor?
Hell, I believe, is just there for the purpose of being the opposite of heaven. Everything has an opposite, and therefore Heaven must have one to. It's a place where bad people would go, so that they would not taint the souls of the good that live in heaven. A place that is said to be worse than death, so that people cannot kill themselves and be forgiven for everything.
Considering the subjectivity of this and that if such a system did exist it is made moot by having the two intermingle from the start it hardly makes any sense. This is to not even mention how unsupported the claim is and how contrary the existence of a soul is to our current observations.
MGW would know a ton offhand, but for starters, did Judas buy land with his payment for betraying Jesus, or did he throw it down for nothing?Matthew and Acts were written by two completely different people, for one. Also, the Acts verse is more than likely a parable.
Is living for a false hope really a good thing? The fear of death in most cases is not lessened by believing there is a heaven and such a belief can result in a negative impact in the way people treat the life they do get.I, for one, am not afraid of death, yet I still believe in a type of afterlife. I don't follow God just for a golden ticket into eternal bliss. I follow God to better myself as a person. I was once selfish and ignorant, but since then, I have evolved into a half-decent person. Believing in God doesn't get you into heaven, as you seem to think. Carrying the beatitudes does.
God doesn't always forgive, he is not a get out of jail card. God is forgiving, but he is not ignorant. If you murder just to murder and there is no justification at all, then I'm sure God wouldn't forgive you if you weren't truly sorry.
Essentially, even Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and others can be accepted into Heaven if they repented.
Essentially, even Hitler, Mao, Stalin, and others can be accepted into Heaven if they repented.The key word is essentially. If they repented, and they were truly, to their core, sorry, then they would probably get into heaven. Otherwise, nay.
The key word is essentially. If they repented, and they were truly, to their core, sorry, then they would probably get into heaven. Otherwise, nay.
What tells you this?
Matthew and Acts were written by two completely different people, for one. Also, the Acts verse is more than likely a parable.
Does it matter if it was written by two different people? They are supposed to be divinely inspired, it doesn't matter who they are. Or where they not divinely inspired?
Does it matter if it is a parable? It is what the words say, so shouldn't they be true? How can you tell what is true from what is false, then?
I, for one, am not afraid of death, yet I still believe in a type of afterlife. I don't follow God just for a golden ticket into eternal bliss. I follow God to better myself as a person. I was once selfish and ignorant, but since then, I have evolved into a half-decent person. Believing in God doesn't get you into heaven, as you seem to think. Carrying the beatitudes does.
Do you now? What religion are you? You don't seem to think Jesus is the key to salvation, as most sects of Christians do. So where do you arrive at your morals?
It sounds more like you are just following your own morals.
What tells you this?Common sense, I suppose. It would seem kind of moronic for an almighty God to let a heartless tyrant into heaven without true feelings of redemption.
Does it matter if it was written by two different people? They are supposed to be divinely inspired, it doesn't matter who they are. Or where they not divinely inspired?Yes, it matters if it was written by two different people. That's two different perspectives, two different minds. It's going to be written differently from person to person... And yes, they were divinely inspired, but they were written into text. There are a lot of things that you can think of and fell, but have it be a challenge to find the words to describe your feelings. Also, I should probably rephrase parable to metaphor, sorry for the misunderstanding
Does it matter if it is a parable? It is what the words say, so shouldn't they be true? How can you tell what is true from what is false, then?
Do you now? What religion are you? You don't seem to think Jesus is the key to salvation, as most sects of Christians do. So where do you arrive at your morals?Christian, Nondenominational. Jesus is the key to salvation, as he gave us the option to repent our sins. I arrived at my morals by interpreting the lessons that were brought forth by the bible. I didn't deny Christ just because I didn't mention him
It sounds more like you are just following your own morals.
Common sense, I suppose. It would seem kind of moronic for an almighty God to let a heartless tyrant into heaven without true feelings of redemption.
Common sense tells me that a heaven/hell system is really black and white, infective, and unjust. If it worked on common since, why would you have any hell? Torturing someone forever is to much for any crime. Why would you only have two?
Lets say that you are forming a normal, earthly court system. You probably have several different laws for different crimes, correct? The thief is going to get punished left than the serial killer, and the guy who parked in the handicapped spot is going to get off with less. If you where making a law, would you give the same punishment for all crimes?
Yes, it matters if it was written by two different people. That's two different perspectives, two different minds. It's going to be written differently from person to person... And yes, they were divinely inspired, but they were written into text. There are a lot of things that you can think of and fell, but have it be a challenge to find the words to describe your feelings. Also, I should probably rephrase parable to metaphor, sorry for the misunderstanding
Two different perspectives of the same information?
Alright. Here. Lets try an experiment. Ask me what elements water is made up of. Then go and ask Mage. I will assume that we will come up with the same answer. Because that is a fact. If someone was getting facts from a deity, how can they get any facts different? And why would you have a challenge to describe your feeling? What feelings? "I feel I am right"? "I feel that this ticket will win the lottery"? It would be simply for a deity, who knew that the words would be written down, to simply tell the poor saps what to wright.
And how, exactly, is it a metaphor? How can you tell it is a metaphor? What is it a metaphor for?
Christian, Nondenominational. Jesus is the key to salvation, as he gave us the option to repent our sins. I arrived at my morals by interpreting the lessons that were brought forth by the bible. I didn't deny Christ just because I didn't mention him
Wait, do you have to repent, or just be sorry for what you have done? There is a large difference...
Did you now? So what moral do you get from the parts where it says to stone people for several minor crimes, like working on Sabbath?
Common sense tells me that a heaven/hell system is really black and white, infective, and unjust. If it worked on common since, why would you have any hell? Torturing someone forever is to much for any crime. Why would you only have two?Well, it's not torture if you made the decision to deny God. Hell is basically a denizen for those who have separated from God, with the burning feeling being your soul's emptiness without God's purity. Note that it's not forever, as the second coming is a soul's last shot at redemption.
Lets say that you are forming a normal, earthly court system. You probably have several different laws for different crimes, correct? The thief is going to get punished left than the serial killer, and the guy who parked in the handicapped spot is going to get off with less. If you where making a law, would you give the same punishment for all crimes?
Alright. Here. Lets try an experiment. Ask me what elements water is made up of. Then go and ask Mage. I will assume that we will come up with the same answer. Because that is a fact. If someone was getting facts from a deity, how can they get any facts different? And why would you have a challenge to describe your feeling? What feelings? "I feel I am right"? "I feel that this ticket will win the lottery"? It would be simply for a deity, who knew that the words would be written down, to simply tell the poor saps what to wright.Again, it's perspective. I can see the same robbery as you, but we may have different feelings about the offender. If I knew the guy, and knew that his motives were to steal money to help his family survive, then I would think differently than a bystander who would assume that the robber was just a crook. As for feelings, think about the word "love". If you look it up in the dictionary, you can get a summary of what the feeling is. When you actually experience it, however, you realize that this definition cannot truly explain the feeling that is present. The bible is a conglomeration of experiences of God that people have dealt with. God inspires them to write down their experiences, from which people can then learn from them. In this sense, God DOES tell them what to write, but indirectly. As for the metaphor, it is a metaphor for Judas' suicide. If you read the verse, you could summarize that Judas bought the land to die and rot away.
And how, exactly, is it a metaphor? How can you tell it is a metaphor? What is it a metaphor for?
Wait, do you have to repent, or just be sorry for what you have done? There is a large difference...I think I have already explained this... But, alas, I will reexplain. Forgiveness requires true feelings of redemption. It's easy to say "I'm sorry" and it's just as easy to say "I don't believe you're sorry". It's just like a little child saying sorry for throwing a toy at you. He is most likely not sorry, and since you know this, you don't legitimately forgive him. The morals I get from your example is to not disprespect God, as only evil will sprout from it.
Did you now? So what moral do you get from the parts where it says to stone people for several minor crimes, like working on Sabbath?
Well, it's not torture if you made the decision to deny God. Hell is basically a denizen for those who have separated from God, with the burning feeling being your soul's emptiness without God's purity. Note that it's not forever, as the second coming is a soul's last shot at redemption.
I am still wondering where you are getting all of this.
Burning=torture. Or do you have a different definition of torture?
And the second coming? In Revelations? Do you believe in Revelations, where the world comes to a horrible bloody end?
Again, it's perspective. I can see the same robbery as you, but we may have different feelings about the offender. If I knew the guy, and knew that his motives were to steal money to help his family survive, then I would think differently than a bystander who would assume that the robber was just a crook
But the difference is in this case, the robber came to both of us and told us what happened, and then told us to write a book on it. We would not put any of our own feelings in it, but what the robber said.
As for feelings, think about the word "love". If you look it up in the dictionary, you can get a summary of what the feeling is. When you actually experience it, however, you realize that this definition cannot truly explain the feeling that is present
And why not? There are thousands of words in the English language, I am sure you could describe it in good detail.
Especially if a divine being is telling you what to say.
God inspires them to write down their experiences, from which people can then learn from them. In this sense, God DOES tell them what to write, but indirectly.
Wait, he uses magic to make people...Feel things? And then write it down?
Wait...I am getting a feeling right now. Oh look. It is god. He is saying to transfer all your money to my accounts, at this moment. And to stop believing in him. Don't question it. In that order.
[quote]As for the metaphor, it is a metaphor for Judas' suicide. If you read the verse, you could summarize that Judas bought the land to die and rot away. [/quot
But...Where it says he bought the land, he tripped and died, with his guts spilling out.
Acts 1:18
Now this man [Judas] purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
While the one where it says he hanged himself he didn't buy anything...
Matthew 27:5
And he [Judas] cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
So that is still a contradiction...
How did Judas die?
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