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Cenere

13,657 posts

Jester

Posted February 16, '12 6:02pm UTC

And a vague title, so you read the gurram OP.

So, let's discuss forum behaviour. In particular the behaviour around or lovely little den, but general forum behaviour or online behaviour should do well too. We can probably relate.
Lately there has been a large influx of people who, and I can only assume here, didn't think it was a good idea to read the rules when they got here, and now, several ranks later, they are doing their very best to get any and all topics closed because they can't type up seven words in response.
I don't know why, but I kinda assumed forums were for discussion, but there seem to be a general consensus that forums are for poll replies, just like the game comments are for word burps instead of, say, quick feedback or reviews, comments, suggestions and so forth.
Is this a thing we just ought to live with, because the internet degrade brains, or should we stand tall, and possibly wait in a dark alley for the people doing this, and beat them up?
Same goes for the deal of "let's reply unnecessarily to questions", not just with the 100+ replies to "How do I change my armatar" or something equally simple, but also the 50+ replies after someone made the first move and told the newbie to go do us all a favour and read the stickies.
I am well aware that the people pointing out the obvious and biting the mods in their well meaning way is doing it out of a good heart, but like the other example, it ends up being rather unnecessary, and spoonfeeding others information just ends up leaving them unable to learn it all themselves.

Anyway, if you fought through that little rant, congratulations. You have now come to the part where you give your opinion, point out the flaws in what I said, perhaps say some wise words or bring our attention towards other aspects of online behaviour and so forth and so forth.

And due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.

And a vague title, so you read the gurram OP.\r\n\r\nSo, let's discuss forum behaviour. In particular the behaviour around or lovely little den, but general forum behaviour or online behaviour should do well too. We can probably relate.\r\nLately there has been a large influx of people who, and I can only assume here, didn't think it was a good idea to read the rules when they got here, and now, several ranks later, they are doing their very best to get any and all topics closed because they can't type up seven words in response. \r\nI don't know why, but I kinda assumed forums were for discussion, but there seem to be a general consensus that forums are for poll replies, just like the game comments are for word burps instead of, say, quick feedback or reviews, comments, suggestions and so forth.\r\nIs this a thing we just ought to live with, because the internet degrade brains, or should we stand tall, and possibly wait in a dark alley for the people doing this, and beat them up?\r\nSame goes for the deal of "let's reply unnecessarily to questions", not just with the 100+ replies to "How do I change my armatar" or something equally simple, but also the 50+ replies after someone made the first move and told the newbie to go do us all a favour and read the stickies.\r\nI am well aware that the people pointing out the obvious and biting the mods in their well meaning way is doing it out of a good heart, but like the other example, it ends up being rather unnecessary, and spoonfeeding others information just ends up leaving them unable to learn it all themselves.\r\n\r\nAnyway, if you fought through that little rant, congratulations. You have now come to the part where you give your opinion, point out the flaws in what I said, perhaps say some wise words or bring our attention towards other aspects of online behaviour and so forth and so forth. \r\n\r\nAnd due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.

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nichodemus

14,991 posts

Grand Duke

Posted February 23, '12 1:18pm UTC

It is mentalities just like the quoted which drag down the community. People think "lawlz, no1 cares bout teh rulez!" and then mucks up the entire place. Then they get banned because they prove to everyone that they never will be a productive member of society.

They'll more or less get rooted out or conform and obey the rules I think; which is why AG has one of the cleanest forums on the internet. Seems a little like survival of the fittest, evolve or die.

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Cenere

13,657 posts

Jester

Posted February 24, '12 3:17pm UTC

This is also the way things work in the real world.

Exactly.
The funny thing about it seems to b, that people are unable to understand that much of what you experience on the internet will have the same consequences as in real life, sans the ability to punch other people in the face, should they deserve it.
The main difference here, however, is that you are able to construct your own identity on the internet by writing in a specific way, consciously altering how people view you, which is rather hard to do in real life, because there is no brain to mouth filter there.

The end result is that a person online can only be judged by the very small amount of information and trends defining their character that they willingly reveal or demonstrate through their online behavioral patterns, which leads both to undue suspicion and imprudent overall acceptance without knowing who or what you are accepting.

For stuff like that, I will actually recommend reading some of Cracked's articles on internet behaviour, mainly because they point out some hilarious truths.
Or simply remember the fact'o'House: Everybody lies.
When interacting with other people, a huge level of trust is needed, and this is true for the internet as well. If you keep your distance, or at least keep somewhat aware of what the other says, while also trusting them enough to not suspect them of lying every other minutes, you should be able to keep a healthy relationship with the internet and the people there.

But a good forum is the World, politics and religion one people there usually have good ideas and thought on various topics people discuss about.

While the WEPR is a good forum for discussions, some things simply does not belong there. Like me. Or some level of proper scientific discussion. Either way, it would be nice if the other forums were worth keeping a discussion in.

Rules are meant to be broken!

I can only assume you have/will get a good bunch of arrests later in life.
When it comes to the internet, rules tend to act like laws: You break them, you get to feel the consequences, and if mods had the authority to, they would probably make you pay fines for breaking the rules, and then fees for having to deal with it in the first place.

I see one flaw with what you said Cen, what does this have to do with bunnies?

Ask whoever changed the title from "things" to "bunnies".
As for the rest, yes, that is an issue. Mainly because it seems to be a really bad case of "better than you" combined with "at getting banned".

They'll more or less get rooted out or conform and obey the rules I think; which is why AG has one of the cleanest forums on the internet. Seems a little like survival of the fittest, evolve or die.

Having horrifying mods that still somehow manages to not abuse their powers really does a lot. I often wonder if AG would be as clean and uncorrupt as it currently is, if the mod team was bigger (and thus, the requirements less strict)...

This is probably considered spam, so you can flag this, and I can loose the point for it, but...it made five pages. *smug smile*

It did indeed. Might be a new record for my wall'o'text threads.

Also, what Voidy said.

Anyway, let's see.
Does using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful?
Does using this forum in particular make you better at handling conflict and communication on other sites, or do you forget about it when you leave, or was this actually something you were caught here and not out in real life?
Also, pragmatism, as ealier mentioned.

[quote] This is also the way things work in the real world.[/quote]\r\nExactly.\r\nThe funny thing about it seems to b, that people are unable to understand that much of what you experience on the internet will have the same consequences as in real life, sans the ability to punch other people in the face, should they deserve it. \r\nThe main difference here, however, is that you are able to construct your own identity on the internet by writing in a specific way, consciously altering how people view you, which is rather hard to do in real life, because there is no brain to mouth filter there.\r\n\r\n[quote]The end result is that a person online can only be judged by the very small amount of information and trends defining their character that they willingly reveal or demonstrate through  their online behavioral patterns, which leads both to undue suspicion and imprudent overall acceptance without knowing who or what you are accepting.[/quote]\r\nFor stuff like that, I will actually recommend reading some of Cracked's articles on internet behaviour, mainly because they point out some hilarious truths. \r\nOr simply remember the fact'o'House: Everybody lies. \r\nWhen interacting with other people, a huge level of trust is needed, and this is true for the internet as well. If you keep your distance, or at least keep somewhat aware of what the other says, while also trusting them enough to not suspect them of lying every other minutes, you should be able to keep a healthy relationship with the internet and the people there. \r\n\r\n[quote]But a good forum is the World, politics and religion one people there usually have good ideas and thought on various topics people discuss about.[/quote]\r\nWhile the WEPR is a good forum for discussions, some things simply does not belong there. Like me. Or some level of proper scientific discussion. Either way, it would be nice if the other forums were worth keeping a discussion in. \r\n\r\n[quote]Rules are meant to be broken![/quote]\r\nI can only assume you have/will get a good bunch of arrests later in life. \r\nWhen it comes to the internet, rules tend to act like laws: You break them, you get to feel the consequences, and if mods had the authority to, they would probably make you pay fines for breaking the rules, and then fees for having to deal with it in the first place.\r\n\r\n[quote]I see one flaw with what you said Cen, what does this have to do with bunnies?[/quote]\r\nAsk whoever changed the title from "things" to "bunnies". \r\nAs for the rest, yes, that is an issue. Mainly because it seems to be a really bad case of "better than you" combined with "at getting banned".\r\n\r\n[quote]They'll more or less get rooted out or conform and obey the rules I think; which is why AG has one of the cleanest forums on the internet. Seems a little like survival of the fittest, evolve or die.[/quote]\r\nHaving horrifying mods that still somehow manages to not abuse their powers really does a lot. I often wonder if AG would be as clean and uncorrupt as it currently is, if the mod team was bigger (and thus, the requirements less strict)...\r\n\r\n[quote]This is probably considered spam, so you can flag this, and I can loose the point for it, but...it made five pages.  *smug smile*[/quote]\r\nIt did indeed. Might be a new record for my wall'o'text threads. \r\n\r\nAlso, what Voidy said. \r\n\r\nAnyway, let's see.\r\nDoes using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful? \r\nDoes using this forum in particular make you better at handling conflict and communication on other sites, or do you forget about it when you leave, or was this actually something you were caught here and not out in real life?\r\nAlso, pragmatism, as ealier mentioned.

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Kalb789

639 posts

Baron

Posted February 24, '12 9:23pm UTC

These forums can help with writing skills and debate and things like that, but I think most people don't even spend enough time to look at previous posts and write thought out responses, so they don't really work on those skills, so they don't get any better at them, so to answer your question, it depends.

And yes I stole your run on sentence from another thread

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CommanderPaladin

1,531 posts

Nomad

Posted February 28, '12 5:32am UTC

Some quick thoughts:

people are unable to understand that much of what you experience on the internet will have the same consequences as in real life

The skills and attitudes required to interact in a community do not change based on the level of technology involved. However, this is most likely what leads people to believe otherwise, since online any face to face contact is generally replaced by an unseeing computer screen. People think that the screen has the same effect as a camouflage net and somehow masks them from the consequences of their actions just because they are "anonymous" online and can't physically be seen. This follows the same pattern as the inclination that drives dishonorable people to commit their crimes when there is the cover of darkness to hide them.

When interacting with other people, a huge level of trust is needed, and this is true for the internet as well. If you keep your distance, or at least keep somewhat aware of what the other says, while also trusting them enough to not suspect them of lying every other minutes, you should be able to keep a healthy relationship

The Christian Bible instructs us to "...Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Basically, this means that people shouldn't start trouble by being unduly suspicious of everyone and everything all the time, but don't let yourself be fooled either - be conscious of what is going on in your surroundings, and obviously if something doesn't look right, stay away from it. The same principle applies online: Be Aware, but don't look for trouble so hard that you see it where it isn't and end up ruining your reputation by causing some.
That quote can also be interpreted as "Keep your fangs to yourself..."

When it comes to the internet, rules tend to act like laws: You break them, you get to feel the consequences

Every cause has an effect. It doesn't matter if you're online or in the real world: if you cause trouble, you will be effected (negatively) by the rules. People tend to lose sight of or simply ignore this when online, either from a self-destructive devil-may-care attitude of "I can get away with anything," or from the fact that they're dealing with a technology-based community subconsciously confusing them and subsequently causing a disconnect that makes them forget that the same rules apply online as in the real world. This second situation could be remedied by not being techno-addicted like too many people today are, and by spending enough time in the real world to reinforce your ability to separate what is real from what isn't.

Having horrifying mods that still somehow manages to not abuse their powers really does a lot.

With great power comes great responsibility. A team of rule-keepers that acts responsibly and wields their power without letting it corrupt them is essential to leading any society, be it online or real world. If the leadership or rule enforcers allows their power to corrupt them, they become worse than what they are supposed to prevent, because they have more power to use wrongly.

wonder if AG would be as clean and uncorrupt as it currently is, if the mod team was bigger

Apply Cen's Law: The larger the group, the less the collective intelligence.
Or, restated more scientifically: The intelligence of a group is inversely proportional to its size.

Does using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful?

Trying to determine the usefulness of forums overall is an exercise in futility. A forum has the same useful value as a conversation in the real world, and that varies based on subject matter and subjective perception. An objective view of conversations is extremely difficult, because what one person considers important another may view as utterly inane. However, threads such as this one do provide some practice of critical thinking and intelligent dialogue, which if for no other reason is important because it exercises the muscle commonly referred to as the brain.

pragmatism

The most pragmatic thought that can be applied to a forum is "If you have nothing to say, say nothing."

This concludes the important stuff. On to the miscellaneous.
________________

Thought for Cen:
If you're working on this for your Master Of Information training, maybe you could collect all the worthwhile posts from this thread when it fades out, print them out onto hardcopy, and present them to your training Master as an abstract for some bonus points?

This thread really should be appropriately named and then stickied.

Some quick thoughts:\r\n[quote]people are unable to understand that much of what you experience on the internet will have the same consequences as in real life[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe skills and attitudes required to interact in a community do not change based on the level of technology involved.  However, this is most likely what leads people to believe otherwise, since online any face to face contact is generally replaced by an unseeing computer screen.  People think that the screen has the same effect as a camouflage net and somehow masks them from the consequences of their actions just because they are "anonymous" online and can't physically be seen.  This follows the same pattern as the inclination that drives dishonorable people to commit their crimes when there is the cover of darkness to hide them.  \r\n\r\n[quote]When interacting with other people, a huge level of trust is needed, and this is true for the internet as well. If you keep your distance, or at least keep somewhat aware of what the other says, while also trusting them enough to not suspect them of lying every other minutes, you should be able to keep a healthy relationship[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe Christian Bible instructs us to "...Be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."  Basically, this means that people shouldn't start trouble by being unduly suspicious of everyone and everything all the time, but don't let yourself be fooled either - be conscious  of what is going on in your surroundings, and obviously if something doesn't look right, stay away from it.  The same principle applies online: Be Aware, but don't look for trouble so hard that you see it where it isn't and end up ruining your reputation by causing some.  \r\nThat quote can also be interpreted as "Keep your fangs to yourself..."\r\n\r\n[quote]When it comes to the internet, rules tend to act like laws: You break them, you get to feel the consequences[/quote]\r\n\r\nEvery cause has an effect.  It doesn't matter if you're online or in the real world: if you cause trouble, you will be effected (negatively) by the rules.  People tend to lose sight of or simply ignore this when online, either from a self-destructive devil-may-care attitude of "I can get away with anything," or from the fact that they're dealing with a technology-based community subconsciously confusing them and subsequently causing a disconnect that makes them forget that the same rules apply online as in the real world.  This second situation could be remedied by not being techno-addicted like too many people today are, and by spending enough time in the real world to reinforce your ability to separate what is real from what isn't.  \r\n\r\n[quote]Having horrifying mods that still somehow manages to not abuse their powers really does a lot.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWith great power comes great responsibility.  A team of rule-keepers that acts responsibly and wields their power without letting it corrupt them is essential to leading any society, be it online or real world.  If the leadership or rule enforcers allows their power to corrupt them, they become worse than what they are supposed to prevent, because they have more power to use wrongly.  \r\n\r\n[quote]wonder if AG would be as clean and uncorrupt as it currently is, if the mod team was bigger[/quote]\r\n\r\nApply Cen's Law:  The larger the group, the less the collective intelligence.\r\nOr, restated more scientifically:  The intelligence of a group is inversely proportional to its size.\r\n\r\n[quote]Does using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful?[/quote]\r\n\r\nTrying to determine the usefulness of forums overall is an exercise in futility.  A forum has the same useful value as a conversation in the real world, and that varies based on subject matter and subjective perception.  An objective view of conversations is extremely difficult, because what one person considers important another may view as utterly inane.  However, threads such as this one do provide some practice of critical thinking and intelligent dialogue, which if for no other reason is important because it exercises the muscle commonly referred to as the brain.  \r\n\r\n[quote]pragmatism[/quote]\r\n\r\nThe most pragmatic thought that can be applied to a forum is "If you have nothing to say, say nothing."\r\n\r\n\r\nThis concludes the important stuff.  On to the miscellaneous.\r\n________________\r\n\r\nThought for Cen:\r\nIf you're working on this for your Master Of Information training, maybe you could collect all the worthwhile posts from this thread when it fades out, print them out onto hardcopy, and present them to your training Master as an abstract for some bonus points?  \r\n\r\nThis thread really should be appropriately named and then stickied.

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Devoidless

3,675 posts

Jester

Posted February 28, '12 11:44am UTC

This thread really should be appropriately named and then stickied.

So it can be properly ignored by everyone.

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sensanaty

1,094 posts

Nomad

Posted February 28, '12 12:08pm UTC

And due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.

We're on page 6 my dear friend.

...just like the game comments are for word burps instead of, say, quick feedback or reviews, comments, suggestions and so forth.

I believe the game comments here were like that since armor games was erected, or at least soon after.

On an unrelated note (excuse the hypocrisy), I've noticed now that you're not a mod, people treat you differently.. :/

Depends who. The newer users, sure, I still respect (and fear) him as much.

I really think that if we set a good example and make every post at least 5 sentences long and think bout our post for a couple of minutes (or hour if you really want to be thourough) then we wouldn't have these problems...

I have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.

So it can be properly ignored by everyone.

^^^

If the "newer user" wants to be respected that's something they can work on.

Whether someone is a newbie or a vet, it just takes minimum effort to write a response that's not 1 sentence or shorter.

[quote]And due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWe're on page 6 my dear friend.\r\n\r\n[quote]...just like the game comments are for word burps instead of, say, quick feedback or reviews, comments, suggestions and so forth.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI believe the game comments here were like that since armor games was erected, or at least soon after.\r\n\r\n[quote]On an unrelated note (excuse the hypocrisy), I've noticed now that you're not a mod, people treat you differently.. :/[/quote]\r\n\r\nDepends who. The newer users, sure, I still respect (and fear) him as much.\r\n\r\n[quote]I really think that if we set a good example and make every post at least 5 sentences long and think bout our post for a couple of minutes (or hour if you really want to be thourough) then we wouldn't have these problems...[/quote]\r\n\r\nI have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.\r\n\r\n[quote]So it can be properly ignored by everyone.[/quote]\r\n\r\n ^^^\r\n\r\n[quote]If the "newer user" wants to be respected that's something they can work on.[/quote]\r\n\r\nWhether someone is a newbie or a vet, it just takes minimum effort to write a response that's not 1 sentence or shorter.

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Somewhat49

1,606 posts

Nomad

Posted February 29, '12 3:10am UTC

My own theory on Wall'o'Text = Less spam is that anyone that would spam would be too lazy to find out what the topic is about, if the title is vague and the OP is long and doesn't make the usual "So, what is your opinion on this specific thing I am mentioning in this very sentence so you might be aware what we are talking about?", and thus, to reply, they would either have to assume (like the nice kid with the videos) or just click backspace and find something easier to get their AP from.

I find that to be quite an effective idea, especialy if there are repliers who also take the wall of text idea.

because in this case you will be flamed to hell and back

Ah the sweet memories of imageboards....

It might be a sign of the end of days, since it looks pretty much like the last couple of pages here in the Tavern from before most of us signed up.

I don't think it is the end of days at all, if you really have no life (like me) and wanted to get a feel of the really old archives of AG by looking at every single page from the back foward, you will find that the quality of threads has actualy improved, but I guess the quality standards went up, I literaly found a unlocked thread that went exactly like this (btw I found one of you guys posting on there, but not gonna say names) Thread name: I'm Bored
OP: I'm bored lol, how bout you
most of the posts: Me too lol!

So I find the fact that those types of topics never come up anymore as quite a relief.

Why is it that the title tells nothing of the complex nature of the discussion taking place in the forum?

If it makes you feel any better, think of the title as a right of passage and a test, and you just passed it.
Also a tad off topic: I like the new thread name, keep up the random, considered cute, animal names.

Yeah why do people keep asking those questions? Don't the moderators always tell them to read the stickies?

After seeing numerous threads titled "how do you make video games?" I have come to the conclusion that there is a pandemic with the virus' side effect being that you are allergic to stickies.

You came here, didn't you?

I thought it would be nice to tell you that the reason I came here was because I saw that the thread was created by you and I thought "ah! he always posts nice stuff, let's see what he says!"

AG is not a "hellish dictatorship of rules," as you put it. The system in place here is well-balanced, providing guidelines for users and punishments for the troublesome while not stifling intelligent dialogue and the general having of fun. I cite this thread and the "You're Banned" game thread respectively as examples.

I agree, most of the forums I go on are quite strict and one slip up will get you banned, but that is mostly because the forums I go onto are really specialized, so if you don't wanna belong, we're not gonna take you.

What was the last point again.....ah yes the rules. Again my exaggeration must
have been too much for you to understand right? I'm sorry but that was how the peope on AG used to talk before we came to this sorry state of the Forum.

I could see your point, but being rude just makes you look quite low.

I mean, what does that say about your intelligence, if you spend your time on the internet getting frustrated by idiots?

The reason why I'm here is because the furums are quite small so your topics will actualy be read and the few who take it seriously have the time to write a serious responce, its nice to have that.

I think that sometimes there will be a newer user who will have insightful ideas about the topic they are in yet they won't be taken as seriously because they don't have as many posts or as much as a reputation as the more experienced users

While that is somewhat true, because i do take some posts more seriously if I recognize the poster from their previous posts, I don't descriminate btwn an unknown high ranked poster, and a unknown low ranked poster.

Well halfway done with page 4.. I really wish I didn't take a break from this topic but now I will once agaian have to.

[quote]My own theory on Wall'o'Text = Less spam is that anyone that would spam would be too lazy to find out what the topic is about, if the title is vague and the OP is long and doesn't make the usual "So, what is your opinion on this specific thing I am mentioning in this very sentence so you might be aware what we are talking about?", and thus, to reply, they would either have to assume (like the nice kid with the videos) or just click backspace and find something easier to get their AP from.\r\n[/quote]\r\nI find that to be quite an effective idea, especialy if there are repliers who also take the wall of text idea.\r\n[quote]because in this case you will be flamed to hell and back[/quote]\r\nAh the sweet memories of imageboards....\r\n[quote]It might be a sign of the end of days, since it looks pretty much like the last couple of pages here in the Tavern from before most of us signed up.\r\n[/quote]\r\nI don't think it is the end of days at all, if you really have no life (like me) and wanted to get a feel of the really old archives of AG by looking at every single page from the back foward, you will find that the quality of threads has actualy improved, but I guess the quality standards went up, I literaly found a unlocked thread that went exactly like this (btw I found one of you guys posting on there, but not gonna say names) Thread name: I'm Bored\r\nOP: I'm bored lol, how bout you\r\nmost of the posts: Me too lol!\r\n\r\nSo I find the fact that those types of topics never come up anymore as quite a relief.\r\n[quote]Why is it that the title tells nothing of the complex nature of the discussion taking place in the forum?[/quote]\r\nIf it makes you feel any better, think of the title as a right of passage and a test, and you just passed it.\r\nAlso a tad off topic: I like the new thread name, keep up the random, considered cute, animal names.\r\n[quote]Yeah why do people keep asking those questions? Don't the moderators always tell them to read the stickies?[/quote] \r\nAfter seeing numerous threads titled "how do you make video games?" I have come to the conclusion that there is a pandemic with the virus' side effect being that you are allergic to stickies.\r\n[quote]You came here, didn't you?\r\n[/quote]\r\nI thought it would be nice to tell you that the reason I came here was because I saw that the thread was created by you and I thought "ah! he always posts nice stuff, let's see what he says!"\r\n[quote] AG is not a "hellish dictatorship of rules," as you put it.  The system in place here is well-balanced, providing guidelines for users and punishments for the troublesome while not stifling intelligent dialogue and the general having of fun.  I cite this thread and the "You're Banned" game thread respectively as examples.  [/quote]\r\nI agree, most of the forums I go on are quite strict and one slip up will get you banned, but that is mostly because the forums I go onto are really specialized, so if you don't wanna belong, we're not gonna take you.\r\n[quote]What was the last point again.....ah yes the rules. Again my exaggeration must\r\nhave been too much for you to understand right? I'm sorry but that was how the peope on AG used to talk before we came to this sorry state of the Forum.[/quote]\r\nI could see your point, but being rude just makes you look quite low.\r\n[quote] I mean, what does that say about your intelligence, if you spend your time on the internet getting frustrated by idiots?[/quote]\r\nThe reason why I'm here is because the furums are quite small so your topics will actualy be read and the few who take it seriously have the time to write a serious responce, its nice to have that.\r\n[quote]I think that sometimes there will be a newer user who will have insightful ideas about the topic they are in yet they won't be taken as seriously because they don't have as many posts or as much as a reputation as the more experienced users[/quote]\r\nWhile that is somewhat true, because i do take some posts more seriously if I recognize the poster from their previous posts, I don't descriminate btwn an unknown high ranked poster, and a unknown low ranked poster.\r\n\r\n\r\nWell halfway done with page 4.. I really wish I didn't take a break from this topic but now I will once agaian have to.

offline

Somewhat49

1,606 posts

Nomad

Posted February 29, '12 11:32pm UTC

when you go "yeah this will be locked"(spam) or "im surprised this isnt locked yet" (still spam) or even "read the stickies noob!"(still spam

A great solution to this ongoing epidemic is to just post a link to the topic they made on the posters profile and tell them that this could be answered by a sticky (link to sticky) and just remind them to look for stickies and other topics before posting. From my experience they take it pretty well and it is in no way rude.

Or simply remember the fact'o'House: Everybody lies

Yes that is perfectly true, that is why you NEVER buy things with the only form of communication being the internet. Also when I was little I liked to make up a new life, but I got bored of that so now i just never even create an identity, I'm pretty much just a 14 year old typing mind with no body or connections to real life.

offline

Rakim

143 posts

Treasurer

Posted March 1, '12 1:13pm UTC

I finally decided to take a look at this thread and I really regret not having done it earlier. The title is so confusing that I ignored it.
I've noticed my behavior on this site change since I first made my account. I had been coming here just to play games. I signed up just because I wanted to rate games and see the comments and maybe write some myself. I admit that in the very beginning I simply thought "Ooh, armor points, I need to get some!" It took me some time to discover the joys of the forums. I was acting like a retard on the forums too, when I first started posting. I read just a couple of the stickies and posted stupid things on stupid topics.
At some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming. I've been trying to improve myself and whenever I see "walls of text" on a thread, I feel I should try to put some thought to my posts too (especially right now). So I guess that the peer pressure theory you guys were talking about is at least partially true.
I also try to post long comments to games. That part of the site frustrates me the most. Almost every time I scroll down to see the comments, all recent comments are 1 or 2 words long and usually when they're at lest a bit longer, they're something like "dis gaem suk bcuz boss be 2 hrad 2 kill". Once, when I wrote a pretty long review, someone posted something like "u talk to much" on my profile. So some users actually think that it's bad to post more than a couple of words in the comments. Sometimes it seems that trying to set a good example is just a waste of time. But that's pretty much the only thing a regular useer can do besides what Somewhat49 mentioned.

While the WEPR is a good forum for discussions, some things simply does not belong there. Like me.

I feel the same way. I think that's because almost every intelligent discussion that I see there has been going on for so long that it seems impossible to read through the whole thread, and if I don't, I'll propably end up posting something that has already been said many times before. I'll usually stick to popular culture, video games or the tavern, which is full of useless threads.

For stuff like that, I will actually recommend reading some of Cracked's articles on internet behaviour

I second that. There are some great articles and I believe it was Christina H who wrote an excellent article on the subject recently.

Does using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful?

I believe I have improved my communication skills and my English here and on other forums quite a lot. I haven't really made friends or gained fame here on the forums, but I've really enjoyed participating in some insightful discussions, even though they are quite rare. I don't spend that much time here, but I wish to take part in this community in a good way. That's the only way I can improve my skills.

I finally decided to take a look at this thread and I really regret not having done it earlier. The title is so confusing that I ignored it.\r\nI've noticed my behavior on this site change since I first made my account. I had been coming here just to play games. I signed up just because I wanted to rate games and see the comments and maybe write some myself. I admit that in the very beginning I simply thought "Ooh, armor points, I need to get some!" It took me some time to discover the joys of the forums. I was acting like a retard on the forums too, when I first started posting. I read just a couple of the stickies and posted stupid things on stupid topics.\r\nAt some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming. I've been trying to improve myself and whenever I see "walls of text" on a thread, I feel I should try to put some thought to my posts too (especially right now). So I guess that the peer pressure theory you guys were talking about is at least partially true.\r\nI also try to post long comments to games. That part of the site frustrates me the most. Almost every time I scroll down to see the comments, all recent comments are 1 or 2 words long and usually when they're at lest a bit longer, they're something like "dis gaem suk bcuz boss be 2 hrad 2 kill". Once, when I wrote a pretty long review, someone posted something like "u talk to much" on my profile. So some users actually think that it's bad to post more than a couple of words in the comments. Sometimes it seems that trying to set a good example is just a waste of time. But that's pretty much the only thing a regular useer can do besides what Somewhat49 mentioned.\r\n\r\n[quote]While the WEPR is a good forum for discussions, some things simply does not belong there. Like me.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI feel the same way. I think that's because almost every intelligent discussion that I see there has been going on for so long that it seems impossible to read through the whole thread, and if I don't, I'll propably end up posting something that has already been said many times before. I'll usually stick to popular culture, video games or the tavern, which is full of useless threads.\r\n\r\n[quote]For stuff like that, I will actually recommend reading some of Cracked's articles on internet behaviour[/quote]\r\n\r\nI second that. There are some great articles and I believe it was Christina H who wrote an excellent article on the subject recently.\r\n\r\n[quote]Does using a forum provide you of any different skills or practice of already existing skills, and in that case, are they at all useful?[/quote]\r\n\r\nI believe I have improved my communication skills and my English here and on other forums quite a lot. I haven't really made friends or gained fame here on the forums, but I've really enjoyed participating in some insightful discussions, even though they are quite rare. I don't spend that much time here, but I wish to take part in this community in a good way. That's the only way I can improve my skills.

offline

soccerdude2

1,673 posts

Shepherd

Posted March 1, '12 10:23pm UTC

I have too although I never really came to the conclusion that the forums are better now, even though when I looked at all of the threads many of them were locked and the last post from a lot of them were from Carlie.

I have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.

I've seen this happen sometimes, I think that if you agree with someone you should either:

A) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______

B) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right

C) Don't post

At some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming.[quote]

Also, usually the newer users think that to get a good reputation, you need to have a good amount of AP so they'll start farming. But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course.

[/quote]I don't think it is the end of days at all, if you really have no life (like me) and wanted to get a feel of the really old archives of AG by looking at every single page from the back foward, you will find that the quality of threads has actualy improved, but I guess the quality standards went up, I literaly found a unlocked thread that went exactly like this (btw I found one of you guys posting on there, but not gonna say names) Thread name: I'm Bored\r\nOP: I'm bored lol, how bout you\r\nmost of the posts: Me too lol![quote]\r\n\r\nI have too although I never really came to the conclusion that the forums are better now, even though when I looked at all of the threads many of them were locked and the last post from a lot of them were from Carlie.\r\n\r\n[/quote]I have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.[quote]\r\n\r\nI've seen this happen sometimes, I think that if you agree with someone you should either:\r\n\r\nA) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______\r\n\r\nB) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right\r\n\r\nC) Don't post\r\n\r\n[/quote]At some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming.[quote]\r\n\r\nAlso, usually the newer users think that to get a good reputation, you need to have a good amount of AP so they'll start farming. But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course.

offline

soccerdude2

1,673 posts

Shepherd

Posted March 1, '12 10:28pm UTC

FACEPALM X(

Whatever I quoted, just think that as my actual text, and vice-versa

..Maybe I'll just repost it...

I don't think it is the end of days at all, if you really have no life (like me) and wanted to get a feel of the really old archives of AG by looking at every single page from the back foward, you will find that the quality of threads has actualy improved, but I guess the quality standards went up, I literaly found a unlocked thread that went exactly like this (btw I found one of you guys posting on there, but not gonna say names) Thread name: I'm Bored
OP: I'm bored lol, how bout you
most of the posts: Me too lol!

I have too although I never really came to the conclusion that the forums are better now, even though when I looked at all of the threads many of them were locked and the last post from a lot of them were from Carlie.

I have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.

I've seen this happen sometimes, I think that if you agree with someone you should either:

A) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______

B) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right

C) Don't post

At some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming.

Also, usually the newer users think that to get a good reputation, you need to have a good amount of AP so they'll start farming. But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course.

-Fingers crossed-

FACEPALM X(\r\n\r\nWhatever I quoted, just think that as my actual text, and vice-versa\r\n\r\n..Maybe I'll just repost it...\r\n\r\n[quote]I don't think it is the end of days at all, if you really have no life (like me) and wanted to get a feel of the really old archives of AG by looking at every single page from the back foward, you will find that the quality of threads has actualy improved, but I guess the quality standards went up, I literaly found a unlocked thread that went exactly like this (btw I found one of you guys posting on there, but not gonna say names) Thread name: I'm Bored\r\nOP: I'm bored lol, how bout you\r\nmost of the posts: Me too lol![/quote]\r\n\r\nI have too although I never really came to the conclusion that the forums are better now, even though when I looked at all of the threads many of them were locked and the last post from a lot of them were from Carlie.\r\n\r\n[quote]I have to call false on this. I've seen dozens of times on very active threads a random post like "I agree with [name/statement]" after 4 or 5 pages of super replies.[/quote]\r\n\r\nI've seen this happen sometimes, I think that if you agree with someone you should either:\r\n\r\nA) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______\r\n\r\nB) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right\r\n\r\nC) Don't post\r\n\r\n[quote]At some point I realized that AP doesn't mean anything and that there are some very mature and intelligent people here in addition to all the people AP farming.[/quote]\r\n\r\nAlso, usually the newer users think that to get a good reputation, you need to have a good amount of AP so they'll start farming. But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course.\r\n\r\n\r\n-Fingers crossed-

offline

Cenere

13,657 posts

Jester

Posted March 4, '12 9:48pm UTC

Those locked threads...

Trying to determine the usefulness of forums overall is an exercise in futility. A forum has the same useful value as a conversation in the real world, and that varies based on subject matter and subjective perception. An objective view of conversations is extremely difficult, because what one person considers important another may view as utterly inane. However, threads such as this one do provide some practice of critical thinking and intelligent dialogue, which if for no other reason is important because it exercises the muscle commonly referred to as the brain.

If you have to get really technical about it, forum use does more than practice your critical thinking. On the physical level, you get to be a faster, more confident writer, with a better understanding of the keyboard and you could probably increase your word per minute by excessive forum use.
On the more mental, or at least non-physical level, you practice your research skills when needing to look up things, often also strengthening your critical view on sources and information. Your reading skills will be better, your passive (and possibly active) vocabulary will broaden, your spelling will possibly improve, your digital communication skills will also be better, which will be an advantage in this current digitally dominant world, you will possibly also be better to negotiate and mediate between others and so forth, and so forth.

The most pragmatic thought that can be applied to a forum is "If you have nothing to say, say nothing."

Well, yes. My point, at least when it comes to MMOGs was that pragmatism tend to be the way to learn. You end up looking at your experiences, look at all the possibilities and then establish a course of action from there.
I was kinda wondering whether this could be applied to forums, since it seems like a rather amusing strategy of informal learning, and considering the theorist that proposed it consider it radical and new, while I can recognise it in the way many people act and react, I was... well, wondering.

After seeing numerous threads titled "how do you make video games?" I have come to the conclusion that there is a pandemic with the virus' side effect being that you are allergic to stickies.

The general consensus tends to be that unless you are particularly aware that stickies or help pages exist, you will not be able to see them...
This usually means that newbies are blind towards stickies just like most of the people that wants to help tend to be blind for previous correct replies. It is sad, and people providing the answers for newbies instead of giving them the assignment of reading the sticky for themselves does nothing to helps this issue.

Apparently they feel that backing up a user is a good way to go. The only problem with that is that the forums aren't really a democracy. The people who make good points do so, no matter how many people back them up. This thread is a good example of that.

When I was moderating the game comments, this particular behaviour could get me good mad. Mainly because it was more often "[entire copy of other user's comment] I agree!!!" than just the simple "I agree with [commenter]". This was rather distracting.
Either way, I don't think it is as much backing up as, as it is a blend between wanting to fit in with the bigger group ("What you said was smart and I want to be associated with that, so I agree!&quot and simply having nothing better to say ("That is a pretty good point, and I don't actually disagree, so...&quot.
Also, that behaviour tend to go against discussions all together, not because the replies are short and useless, but also because just agreeing with an opinion doesn't add anything. You don't learn anything, you don't teach your opponent anything. It might as well have been a poll.

A great solution to this ongoing epidemic is to just post a link to the topic they made on the posters profile and tell them that this could be answered by a sticky (link to sticky) and just remind them to look for stickies and other topics before posting. From my experience they take it pretty well and it is in no way rude.

Sadly, this does not do much to deal with the people that believe saying "This should be locked" is as valid as going to a moderator and requesting a lock.
Either way, I tend to point out that the newbie should good look up the stickies (usually without linking, because they might as well learn where to look too), because whatever they have asked about has been answered there, and they will most likely find more answers they didn't think they needed there too.
Two hours later, someone will reply with the exact answer, usually copy/pasted from their secret stash of replies, and I will facepalm at how they just made a "good job ruining it, hero!" moment.
Sadly, I sincerely doubt this will be a behaviour that can be changed or turned for the better, for that matter. These are also the same people that will refuse to read the other replies before answering the title/OP, which is just as hard to deal with...

I read just a couple of the stickies and posted stupid things on stupid topics.

Reading a couple of stickies is reading a couple more than the average user. Posting stupid things on stupid topics is just a part of growing into the community role.

Once, when I wrote a pretty long review, someone posted something like "u talk to much" on my profile

Offtopic, but: The proper reply to that would probably be "I am sorry, I can't read your comment for how deleted it is." and delete it as spam.
Alternately, "You don't talk enough, but we can't all be perfect."
Ahem, anyway.

I feel the same way. I think that's because almost every intelligent discussion that I see there has been going on for so long that it seems impossible to read through the whole thread, and if I don't, I'll propably end up posting something that has already been said many times before

This exactly. I respect that section of its ability to put the discussion into the threads, but if it is a topic I am interested in, chances are twenty other people will be interested too. And will all be Americans and thus write thirty pages while I sleep, and won't reply when I am awake...
It is a lot to keep up with, especially if you want to add to the discussion, not just indirectly go "I agree" on the topic.
Same reason I tend to go "I am sorry, I haven't read the entire topic, but this is my two dkr. Also, I doubtfully will reply." in the beginning of my posts there...

I second that. There are some great articles and I believe it was Christina H who wrote an excellent article on the subject recently.

Might very well be the same we are thinking about.
Either way, however much Cracked is a humour site, it does have its points. And the comments tend to be a great place for observing online behaviour.

A) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______

B) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right

C) Don't post

Same goes for other types of threads as well. Usually the ones that call of either quoting or copy/pasting others' words.
The "best advice" threads currently on the front page is a good example, in the fact that you might be putting up some great pieces of advice, but you are also not contributing original thought to the threads. Explaining why you like it, how you interpret it and so forth will do a lot to such a thread, to the point there it can actually act as a discussion instead of a brainfart collection.

But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course

A tangent, but: Then someone else comes along, comments on how much AP you have and how you must have wasted your time. You look at their profile, they have been member for three days and are wood knights or something. You have been a member of three years, and only recently reached gold king.
Then you facepalm.

--

If you're working on this for your Master Of Information training, maybe you could collect all the worthwhile posts from this thread when it fades out, print them out onto hardcopy, and present them to your training Master as an abstract for some bonus points?

I mentioned this to my supervisor. She seemed amused, but considering my trouble tend to be lack of theory rather than practical experiences and evidence, it might not be the best of ideas.
Besides, I kinda hope to write my master about copyright in the future, rather than informal learning and online behaviour.

We're on page 6 my dear friend.

Someone pointed out we were at page 5 on the last page too.
Colour me surprised, is all I can say.

Those locked threads...\r\n\r\n[quote]Trying to determine the usefulness of forums overall is an exercise in futility.  A forum has the same useful value as a conversation in the real world, and that varies based on subject matter and subjective perception.  An objective view of conversations is extremely difficult, because what one person considers important another may view as utterly inane.  However, threads such as this one do provide some practice of critical thinking and intelligent dialogue, which if for no other reason is important because it exercises the muscle commonly referred to as the brain.[/quote]\r\nIf you have to get really technical about it, forum use does more than practice your critical thinking. On the physical level, you get to be a faster, more confident writer, with a better understanding of the keyboard and you could probably increase your word per minute by excessive forum use.\r\nOn the more mental, or at least non-physical level, you practice your research skills when needing to look up things, often also strengthening your critical view on sources and information. Your reading skills will be better, your passive (and possibly active) vocabulary will broaden, your spelling will possibly improve, your digital communication skills will also be better, which will be an advantage in this current digitally dominant world, you will possibly also be better to negotiate and mediate between others and so forth, and so forth.\r\n\r\n[quote]The most pragmatic thought that can be applied to a forum is "If you have nothing to say, say nothing."[/quote]\r\nWell, yes. My point, at least when it comes to MMOGs was that pragmatism tend to be the way to learn. You end up looking at your experiences, look at all the possibilities and then establish a course of action from there. \r\nI was kinda wondering whether this could be applied to forums, since it seems like a rather amusing strategy of informal learning, and considering the theorist that proposed it consider it radical and new, while I can recognise it in the way many people act and react, I was... well, wondering.\r\n\r\n[quote]After seeing numerous threads titled "how do you make video games?" I have come to the conclusion that there is a pandemic with the virus' side effect being that you are allergic to stickies. [/quote]\r\nThe general consensus tends to be that unless you are particularly aware that stickies or help pages exist, you will not be able to see them... \r\nThis usually means that newbies are blind towards stickies just like most of the people that wants to help tend to be blind for previous correct replies. It is sad, and people providing the answers for newbies instead of giving them the assignment of reading the sticky for themselves does nothing to helps this issue.\r\n\r\n[quote]Apparently they feel that backing up a user is a good way to go. The only problem with that is that the forums aren't really a democracy. The people who make good points do so, no matter how many people back them up. This thread is a good example of that. [/quote]\r\nWhen I was moderating the game comments, this particular behaviour could get me good mad. Mainly because it was more often "[entire copy of other user's comment] I agree!!!" than just the simple "I agree with [commenter]". This was rather distracting. \r\nEither way, I don't think it is as much backing up as, as it is a blend between wanting to fit in with the bigger group ("What you said was smart and I want to be associated with that, so I agree!") and simply having nothing better to say ("That is a pretty good point, and I don't actually disagree, so..."). \r\nAlso, that behaviour tend to go against discussions all together, not because the replies are short and useless, but also because just agreeing with an opinion doesn't add anything. You don't learn anything, you don't teach your opponent anything. It might as well have been a poll. \r\n\r\n[quote]A great solution to this ongoing epidemic is to just post a link to the topic they made on the posters profile and tell them that this could be answered by a sticky (link to sticky) and just remind them to look for stickies and other topics before posting. From my experience they take it pretty well and it is in no way rude. [/quote]\r\nSadly, this does not do much to deal with the people that believe saying "This should be locked" is as valid as going to a moderator and requesting a lock. \r\nEither way, I tend to point out that the newbie should good look up the stickies (usually without linking, because they might as well learn where to look too), because whatever they have asked about has been answered there, and they will most likely find more answers they didn't think they needed there too.\r\nTwo hours later, someone will reply with the exact answer, usually copy/pasted from their secret stash of replies, and I will facepalm at how they just made a "good job ruining it, hero!" moment.\r\nSadly, I sincerely doubt this will be a behaviour that can be changed or turned for the better, for that matter. These are also the same people that will refuse to read the other replies before answering the title/OP, which is just as hard to deal with...\r\n\r\n[quote]I read just a couple of the stickies and posted stupid things on stupid topics.[/quote]\r\nReading a couple of stickies is reading a couple more than the average user. Posting stupid things on stupid topics is just a part of growing into the community role. \r\n\r\n[quote]Once, when I wrote a pretty long review, someone posted something like "u talk to much" on my profile[/quote]\r\nOfftopic, but: The proper reply to that would probably be "I am sorry, I can't read your comment for how deleted it is." and delete it as spam. \r\nAlternately, "You don't talk enough, but we can't all be perfect."\r\nAhem, anyway.\r\n\r\n[quote]I feel the same way. I think that's because almost every intelligent discussion that I see there has been going on for so long that it seems impossible to read through the whole thread, and if I don't, I'll propably end up posting something that has already been said many times before[/quote]\r\nThis exactly. I respect that section of its ability to put the discussion into the threads, but if it is a topic I am interested in, chances are twenty other people will be interested too. And will all be Americans and thus write thirty pages while I sleep, and won't reply when I am awake... \r\nIt is a lot to keep up with, especially if you want to add to the discussion, not just indirectly go "I agree" on the topic.\r\nSame reason I tend to go "I am sorry, I haven't read the entire topic, but this is my two dkr. Also, I doubtfully will reply." in the beginning of my posts there...\r\n\r\n[quote]I second that. There are some great articles and I believe it was Christina H who wrote an excellent article on the subject recently.[/quote]\r\nMight very well be the same we are thinking about. \r\nEither way, however much Cracked is a humour site, it does have its points. And the comments tend to be a great place for observing online behaviour. \r\n\r\n[quote]A) Say you agree with most of the points but it would be better if_______\r\n\r\nB) Say you agree and go more in-depth about why they are right\r\n\r\nC) Don't post[/quote]\r\nSame goes for other types of threads as well. Usually the ones that call of either quoting or copy/pasting others' words. \r\nThe "best advice" threads currently on the front page is a good example, in the fact that you might be putting up some great pieces of advice, but you are also not contributing original thought to the threads. Explaining why you like it, how you interpret it and so forth will do a lot to such a thread, to the point there it can actually act as a discussion instead of a brainfart collection.\r\n\r\n[quote]But most of us now realize AP doesn't really mean anything except for some users how much time they've spent on here. Unless they farmed, of course[/quote]\r\nA tangent, but: Then someone else comes along, comments on how much AP you have and how you must have wasted your time. You look at their profile, they have been member for three days and are wood knights or something. You have been a member of three years, and only recently reached gold king. \r\nThen you facepalm. \r\n\r\n--\r\n[quote]If you're working on this for your Master Of Information training, maybe you could collect all the worthwhile posts from this thread when it fades out, print them out onto hardcopy, and present them to your training Master as an abstract for some bonus points?  [/quote]\r\nI mentioned this to my supervisor. She seemed amused, but considering my trouble tend to be lack of theory rather than practical experiences and evidence, it might not be the best of ideas.\r\nBesides, I kinda hope to write my master about copyright in the future, rather than informal learning and online behaviour.\r\n\r\n[quote]We're on page 6 my dear friend.[/quote]\r\nSomeone pointed out we were at page 5 on the last page too. \r\nColour me surprised, is all I can say.

offline

CommanderPaladin

1,531 posts

Nomad

Posted March 5, '12 5:23am UTC

Anyway, if you fought through that little rant, congratulations. You have now come to the part where you give your opinion, point out the flaws in what I said, perhaps say some wise words or bring our attention towards other aspects of online behaviour and so forth and so forth.

And due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.

considering my trouble tend to be lack of theory rather than practical experiences and evidence

Cen old boy, you've got the abstract of a theory in your first post to this thread. It just needs a little hashing out is all. Let me try.
*hash*
*hash*
*hash*
Okay, here:

///Begin Log///

>Premise: People overall exhibit poor forum behavior because they do not read the rules, and they do not put enough thought, time and effort into their posts, which results in a jumbled mess with little or no intelligent communication or information being present.

>Theory: Due to the circumstances of the Premise, a thread based on intelligent communication will not survive to five pages (50 posts).

>Experiment: Establish a thread based on intelligent communication.

>>Experiment particulars: For sake of simplicity, the thread's topic will be the same as the Premise subject.
Thread will be inserted into the ether of a general-conversation zone of the subject forum.
Thread name will be deliberately irrelevant to attempt to attract a wide selection of test subjects.
Opening post will be a so-called Wall of Text to create an environment conducive to intelligent thought.

>Experiment Execution / Procedural Logs:
At 13:02 hours on 16 February 2012, thread was established according to procedures outlined in Experiment Particulars.

At 15:10 hrs (same day), First response logged. Response negative for intelligence.

16 Feb. 16:55 hrs, Researcher attempted to reboot experiment with an additional post containing more detailed information. This was done to prevent experiment from ending before enough information could be attained.

16 Feb 17:55 hrs, Second response logged. Response positive for intelligence. Post classed as Wall of Text due to length.

16 Feb 18:42 - 19:32 hrs, Six additional responses logged, all positive for intelligence. Post lengths classed as Multi-Paragraph (2+)

16 Feb 19:32 hrs, Page 1 completed (10 posts).

19:36 hrs 16 Feb. 2012 - 09:24 hrs 17 Feb. 2012, Nine additional responses, all Positive for intelligence. Post subjects showed minor deviations from original topic, but remained satisfactorily within topic limits. Post lengths classed as Multi-Paragraph to Wall of Text.

17 Feb. 13:11 hrs, Researcher contributed Wall of Text post to further dialogue. This will become standard procedure.

17 Feb. 13:11 hrs, Page 2 completed (20 posts).

18 Feb. 0:00 hrs - 17:15 hrs, Page 3 completed (30 posts). All posts, including by researcher, are Positive for intelligence, with the exceptions of 09:37 (Sarcastic, limited intelligence), 09:45 (Marginal Intelligence) and 17:15 (Rant, Intelligence test N/A). Post lengths (excluding the excepted) classed from Multi-Paragraph to Wall of Text.

Log Notation: Post length classes Multi-Paragraph and Wall of Text will now be referred to as MP and WT respectively.

18 Feb. 17:25 hrs - 19 Feb. 22:56 hrs, Page 4 completed (40 posts). All posts, including by researcher, are Positive for intelligence, however 22:56 showed deviation from topic. Post lengths MP-WT.

20 Feb. 18:13 hrs - 24 Feb. 16:23 hrs, Page 5 completed (50 posts). All posts are Positive for Intelligence, except 20 Feb. 18:16 hrs (irrelevant), and 22 Feb. 21:58 hrs (Minimal Intelligence). Post length classed as Single-Paragraph (SP) - WT.

Log Notation: Experiment has reached point of successful completion, but will be allowed to continue to gain further data.

28 Feb. 0:32 hrs - Ongoing, Page 6. All posts to date are Positive for Intelligence and Length - WT, except for 28 Feb. 06:44 hrs (Sarcastic/Irrelevant, one-line length).

>Results: Experiment performed according to plan and produced positive results far exceeding original expectations. Experiment is being allowed to proceed indefinitely for further data collection. So far, experiment has produced 59 logged posts with 52 posts testing Positive for Intelligence and 7 testing Negative, or a ratio of roughly 8.42:1 Positive to Negative posts.

>Conclusions: Theory disproved. Thread exceeded 5-page mark and is continuing to grow.
Premise, while bearing some truth (as evidenced by the 7 negative posts), is somewhat flawed in its perception. People can and do exhibit good forum behavior and Intelligent thought online, as shown by the overall excellent performance of this thread.
Premise should be altered to reflect this experiment's findings in addition to the poor behavior found elsewhere.

>Additional Notations (abstract): Intelligent thought breeds Intelligent conversation. Perhaps more threads like this one should be started to encourage and incentivize proper forum behavior.

///End Log///

There. Now you have a complete Theory, Log, and Report of this experiment to give your Master.

[quote]Anyway, if you fought through that little rant, congratulations. You have now come to the part where you give your opinion, point out the flaws in what I said, perhaps say some wise words or bring our attention towards other aspects of online behaviour and so forth and so forth.\r\n\r\nAnd due to above, I bet this won't make five pages.[/quote]\r\n\r\n[quote]considering my trouble tend to be lack of theory rather than practical experiences and evidence[/quote]\r\n\r\nCen old boy, you've got the abstract of a theory in your first post to this thread.  It just needs a little hashing out is all.  Let me try.\r\n*hash*\r\n*hash*\r\n*hash*\r\nOkay, here:\r\n\r\n///Begin Log///\r\n\r\n\r\n>Premise:  People overall exhibit poor forum behavior because they do not read the rules, and they do not put enough thought, time and effort into their posts, which results in a jumbled mess with little or no intelligent communication or information being present.\r\n\r\n>Theory:  Due to the circumstances of the Premise, a thread based on intelligent communication will not survive to five pages (50 posts).\r\n\r\n>Experiment:  Establish a thread based on intelligent communication.  \r\n\r\n>>Experiment particulars:  For sake of simplicity, the thread's topic will be the same as the Premise subject.\r\nThread will be inserted into the ether of a general-conversation  zone of the subject forum.\r\nThread name will be deliberately irrelevant to attempt to attract a wide selection of test subjects.\r\nOpening post will be a so-called Wall of Text to create an environment conducive to intelligent thought. \r\n\r\n>Experiment Execution / Procedural Logs:  \r\nAt 13:02 hours on 16 February 2012, thread was established according to procedures outlined in Experiment Particulars.  \r\n\r\n At 15:10 hrs (same day), First response logged.  Response negative for intelligence.\r\n\r\n16 Feb. 16:55 hrs, Researcher attempted to reboot experiment with an additional post containing more detailed information.  This was done to prevent experiment from ending before enough information could be attained.\r\n\r\n16 Feb 17:55 hrs, Second response logged.  Response positive for intelligence.  Post classed as Wall of Text due to length.\r\n\r\n16 Feb 18:42 - 19:32 hrs, Six additional responses logged, all positive for intelligence.  Post lengths classed as Multi-Paragraph (2+)\r\n\r\n16 Feb 19:32 hrs, Page 1 completed (10 posts).\r\n\r\n19:36 hrs 16 Feb. 2012 - 09:24 hrs 17 Feb. 2012, Nine additional responses, all Positive for intelligence.  Post subjects showed minor deviations from original topic, but remained satisfactorily within topic limits.  Post lengths classed as Multi-Paragraph to Wall of Text.\r\n\r\n17 Feb. 13:11 hrs, Researcher contributed Wall of Text post to further dialogue.  This will become standard procedure.\r\n\r\n17 Feb. 13:11 hrs, Page 2 completed (20 posts).\r\n\r\n18 Feb. 0:00 hrs - 17:15 hrs, Page 3 completed (30 posts).  All posts, including by researcher, are Positive for intelligence, with the exceptions of 09:37 (Sarcastic, limited intelligence), 09:45 (Marginal Intelligence) and 17:15 (Rant, Intelligence test N/A).  Post lengths (excluding the excepted) classed from Multi-Paragraph to Wall of Text.\r\n\r\nLog Notation:  Post length classes Multi-Paragraph and Wall of Text will now be referred to as MP and WT respectively.\r\n\r\n18 Feb. 17:25 hrs - 19 Feb. 22:56 hrs, Page 4 completed (40 posts).  All posts, including by researcher, are Positive for intelligence, however 22:56 showed deviation from topic.  Post lengths MP-WT.\r\n\r\n20 Feb. 18:13 hrs - 24 Feb. 16:23 hrs, Page 5 completed (50 posts).  All posts are Positive for Intelligence, except 20 Feb. 18:16 hrs (irrelevant), and 22 Feb. 21:58 hrs (Minimal Intelligence).  Post length classed as Single-Paragraph (SP) - WT.\r\n\r\nLog Notation:  Experiment has reached point of successful completion, but will be allowed to continue to gain further data.\r\n\r\n28 Feb. 0:32 hrs - Ongoing, Page 6.  All posts to date are Positive for Intelligence and Length - WT, except for 28 Feb. 06:44 hrs (Sarcastic/Irrelevant, one-line length).  \r\n\r\n>Results:  Experiment performed according to plan and produced positive results far exceeding original expectations.  Experiment is being allowed to proceed indefinitely for further data collection.  So far, experiment has produced 59 logged posts with 52 posts testing Positive for Intelligence and 7 testing Negative, or a ratio of roughly 8.42:1 Positive to Negative posts.\r\n\r\n>Conclusions:  Theory disproved.  Thread exceeded 5-page mark and is continuing to grow.  \r\nPremise, while bearing some truth (as evidenced by the 7 negative posts), is somewhat flawed in its perception.  People can and do exhibit good forum behavior and Intelligent thought online, as shown by the overall excellent performance of this thread.  \r\nPremise should be altered to reflect this experiment's findings in addition to the poor behavior found elsewhere.  \r\n\r\n>Additional Notations (abstract):  Intelligent thought breeds Intelligent conversation.  Perhaps more threads like this one should be started to encourage and incentivize proper forum behavior.\r\n\r\n\r\n///End Log///\r\n\r\nThere.  Now you have a complete Theory, Log, and Report of this experiment to give your Master.

offline

Cenere

13,657 posts

Jester

Posted March 5, '12 7:02pm UTC

There. Now you have a complete Theory, Log, and Report of this experiment to give your Master.

Except I have no theory...
With that I meant I was lacking in other people's research and theories, which is something I often do because I apply what I read to reality instead of keeping it on a theoretical level...
Our professors tend to assume we need to stand on the shoulders of "giants", rather than have an opinion or theory for ourselves, not to mention we apparently have to use their words and definitions, which tends to be kinda crap at times.

Especially with that guy talking about digital natives, who really had no freaking idea of what he was talking about. A published author, used as part of our curriculum, and he is just a snotfaced poser *cough*...

Either way, I don't think there is 75 pages to do on forum behaviour as such. Even if there is, I also somehow doubt it would get me a job as much as theorising copyright might do.

Thanks anyway, and sorry to everyone else from the tangent.
Instead, let's have a bit about mr. Snot-face I mentioned:

Digital natives are:
Working via multitasking (as opposed to time management)
Learning from experience (-''- instructions)
Working together with others collectively oriented (-''- independent individuals meeting)
Motivated by positive encouragement (-''- competition)
Considering authority something you have to earn (-''- having respect for authorities)
Decentralised, not in a hierarchy (-''- centralised, in a hierarchy)
/Wants information to be accessible to everyone (-''- wants information to be accessible to leaders)
This is Peter Hanke's thoughts on digital natives as opposed to the baby boomers. He also considers digital natives to be independant and strong people, loyal to each other, that piracy is a rebellion and awesome and will lead to a society where everything is free in a few years.
There was also mention of digital natives having little patience with structured learning, and would much rather learn by doing...

So, what would your opinion be on this, dear reader?

[quote]There.  Now you have a complete Theory, Log, and Report of this experiment to give your Master.[/quote]\r\nExcept I have no [i]theory[/i]... \r\nWith that I meant I was lacking in other people's research and theories, which is something I often do because I apply what I read to reality instead of keeping it on a theoretical level...\r\nOur professors tend to assume we need to stand on the shoulders of "giants", rather than have an opinion or theory for ourselves, not to mention we apparently have to use their words and definitions, which tends to be kinda crap at times.\r\n\r\nEspecially with that guy talking about digital natives, who really had no freaking idea of what he was talking about. A published author, used as part of our curriculum, and he is just a snotfaced poser *cough*... \r\n\r\nEither way, I don't think there is 75 pages to do on forum behaviour as such. Even if there is, I also somehow doubt it would get me a job as much as theorising copyright might do. \r\n\r\nThanks anyway, and sorry to everyone else from the tangent. \r\nInstead, let's have a bit about mr. Snot-face I mentioned:\r\n\r\n[i]Digital natives are:\r\nWorking via multitasking (as opposed to time management)\r\nLearning from experience (-''- instructions)\r\nWorking together with others collectively oriented (-''- independent individuals meeting)\r\nMotivated by positive encouragement (-''- competition)\r\nConsidering authority something you have to earn (-''- having respect for authorities)\r\nDecentralised, not in a hierarchy (-''- centralised, in a hierarchy)\r\n/Wants information to be accessible to everyone (-''- wants information to be accessible to leaders)[/i]\r\nThis is Peter Hanke's thoughts on digital natives as opposed to the baby boomers. He also considers digital natives to be independant and strong people, loyal to each other, that piracy is a rebellion and awesome and will lead to a society where everything is free in a few years. \r\nThere was also mention of digital natives having little patience with structured learning, and would much rather learn by doing... \r\n\r\nSo, what would your opinion be on this, dear reader?

offline

Somewhat49

1,606 posts

Nomad

Posted March 6, '12 2:50am UTC

So, what would your opinion be on this, dear reader?

Decentralised, not in a hierarchy (-''- centralised, in a hierarchy)

Haha those two sentences put together made my day (and my day was a funny one).

Theory disproved. Thread exceeded 5-page mark and is continuing to grow.
Premise, while bearing some truth (as evidenced by the 7 negative posts), is somewhat flawed in its perception. People can and do exhibit good forum behavior and Intelligent thought online, as shown by the overall excellent performance of this thread.

Yea but if you look at the number of posts and the number of views this thread actualy got, it is quite a difference, also the posts in this thread are from only about 10 people, while the views are only once per account so that is a big difference. What this thread showed to me is that you could almost sucessfuly throw a net into the sea of the internet and still filter out some good fish who are ready for a higher standard of coversation (always fun to use metaphors).

Either way, I don't think there is 75 pages to do on forum behaviour as such

Well, here is our new record to break to prove Cerene wrong, we gotta get this to 75 pages or more and judging by how little users are actualy posting on this, it will be quite a challenge to keep it fresh, althought that would be interesting if some noobs tried to hijack this thread and turn it into 7 word long posts (if you're lucky).

Digital natives are

I would say procrastinators (internet is a great way to burn some hours)
judgemental (any loosely regulated forums show what I mean)
non-patient (a guy once got angry that he couldn't use wi-fi on the plane while it was in the air)
quick to find patterns (universal power button sign, my mom didn't know what it was and where it usualy is located)
has enhanced material needs (it has gone so far that virtual friends and items are of worth to people)
I think that's all I could really classify as a digital native, feel free to critique the list.

[quote]So, what would your opinion be on this, dear reader?[/quote]\r\n[quote]Decentralised, not in a hierarchy (-''- centralised, in a hierarchy)\r\n[/quote]\r\nHaha those two sentences put together made my day (and my day was a funny one).\r\n[quote]Theory disproved.  Thread exceeded 5-page mark and is continuing to grow. \r\nPremise, while bearing some truth (as evidenced by the 7 negative posts), is somewhat flawed in its perception.  People can and do exhibit good forum behavior and Intelligent thought online, as shown by the overall excellent performance of this thread. [/quote]\r\nYea but if you look at the number of posts and the number of views this thread actualy got, it is quite a difference, also the posts in this thread are from only about 10 people, while the views are only once per account so that is a big difference. What this thread showed to me is that you could almost sucessfuly throw a net into the sea of the internet and still filter out some good fish who are ready for a higher standard of coversation (always fun to use metaphors).\r\n[quote]Either way, I don't think there is 75 pages to do on forum behaviour as such[/quote]\r\nWell, here is our new record to break to prove Cerene wrong, we gotta get this to 75 pages or more and judging by how little users are actualy posting on this, it will be quite a challenge to keep it fresh, althought that would be interesting if some noobs tried to hijack this thread and turn it into 7 word long posts (if you're lucky).\r\n[quote]Digital natives are[/quote]\r\nI would say procrastinators (internet is a great way to burn some hours)\r\njudgemental (any loosely regulated forums show what I mean)\r\nnon-patient (a guy once got angry that he couldn't use wi-fi on the plane while it was in the air)\r\nquick to find patterns (universal power button sign, my mom didn't know what it was and where it usualy is located)\r\nhas enhanced material needs (it has gone so far that virtual friends and items are of worth to people)\r\nI think that's all I could really classify as a digital native, feel free to critique the list.

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