Just for the record, this thread should not be considered a duplicate. The closest to thing to this thread would be a thread over a month old. Besides, this one is more specific.
I have not been really active lately and so I decided to go ahead and make a thread, thata way it will keep me checking on it.
Anywho, this thread is about and only about Christian doctrine. It is open to all educated persons wanting to debate their doctrine. Those with stupid arguments, need not post a word. It is not limited to Christians; Athiests, and other religions are welcome too, as long as they keep to the subject.
Anywho, this thread is about and only about Christian doctrine. It is open to all educated persons wanting to debate their doctrine. Those with stupid arguments, need not post a word. It is not limited to Christians; Athiests, and other religions are welcome too, as long as they keep to the subject.
As I am sure people with "Stupid arguments" where thinking about posting, but then read it and realized they couldn't post it?
To start off, I'm anti-Catholic. By saying that I'm not saying that I don't like Catholics, just the religion. Catholics believe in Salvation by works and Baptism. I believe in Salvation by Faith.
I believe in the Bible as God's true and inspired Word.
I'm ony giving two. That way I can keep it short sweet and to the point. I will give some more later in response to others. Do you have any issues with theese thus far?
To start off, I'm anti-Catholic. By saying that I'm not saying that I don't like Catholics, just the religion. Catholics believe in Salvation by works and Baptism. I believe in Salvation by Faith.
Why do you believe in "Salvation by Faith"? Why is it capitalized?
I believe in the Bible as God's true and inspired Word.
So all the laws, like stoning people for working on the Sabbath, should be followed as the true and inspired word?
I'm ony giving two. That way I can keep it short sweet and to the point. I will give some more later in response to others. Do you have any issues with theese thus far?
What? Just faith alone? No need to prove that you actually mean it? Doesn't that rather pave the way for the apocryphal tales of 'deathbed salvation' of murderers and the like?
I believe in the Bible as God's true and inspired Word.
1. How do you reconcile the multiple translations + contradictions/falsehoods in the text with this belief? 2. Do you have any proof that it is true and/or inspired by God? And the old 'the Bible says so' argument doesn't cut it.
So all the laws, like stoning people for working on the Sabbath, should be followed as the true and inspired word?
No. Jesus cancelled the old laws of Moses. (Heb 7)
What? Just faith alone? No need to prove that you actually mean it? Doesn't that rather pave the way for the apocryphal tales of 'deathbed salvation' of murderers and the like?
Works follow faith. The deathbead salvation is controversial. I will not argue with that.
1. How do you reconcile the multiple translations + contradictions/falsehoods in the text with this belief? 2. Do you have any proof that it is true and/or inspired by God? And the old 'the Bible says so' argument doesn't cut it.
This thread is not a debate on whether or not the Bible is true on not. If you would like to talk about that, I'm sure there is a thread for it. However, the Bible does say so: 2 Tim. 3:16. In this case, the "the Bible says so" Argument does cut it, since we are looking at it from a Christian's view.
No. Jesus cancelled the old laws of Moses. (Heb 7)
No he didn't (My computer is acting up at the moment, but didn't Jesus say something to the effect of "I have not come to abolish the old laws, but to fulfill"? Ill get the quote when I can)
Works follow faith. The deathbead salvation is controversial. I will not argue with that.
Then why would works not work? I know plenty of people with no faith but who do good works...
I seem to be noticing a rising trend where people are ignoring the old testament more than ever before. do you give the old testament as much weight as the new testament? if not, why?
Sorry if it's a stupid question, but does catholic doctrine really teach 'salvation by work and baptism only'? Wouldn't it be more something in the line of 'salvation by work, baptism and faith'?
In which case you are simply adhering to the more extreme doctrine, 'salvation by faith only'.
Now whether you get salvation by work or by faith, both are arbitrarily set by a diety. If I had to choose between the two, I'd definitely go with salvation by works because a diety that requires you to do good deeds or at least treat others well, to get salvation, is necessarily a diety that also personally puts importance on those things. Whereas this is not necessarily the case for a diety that requires only faith and only suggests that you be good.
Whereas this is not necessarily the case for a diety that requires only faith and only suggests that you be good.
James 2:14-17 14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but donât show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, âGood-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat wellââ"but then you donât give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
17 So you see, faith by itself isnât enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.
=== From this I conclude that I cannot have faith in Jesus Christ if I do not do what he said. In order to have true faith I must do what he commanded.
For example: Luke 14:13 "But when you give a banquet, invite the poor, the crippled, the lame, the blind..."
"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven." (Matthew 6:1 NIV)
Although the most important two out of around the 38: "The Greatest Commandment" Jesus was asked: "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments. Matt 22:36-40 (Amp)
Thus Salvation by faith only is also in itself, salvation by faith and works.
Hopefully the font doesn't stuff up and show symbols everywhere...
Thus Salvation by faith only is also in itself, salvation by faith and works.
So salvation by faith is also by faith and works, but salvation by works is also salvation by works and faith because you do good deeds out of faith to jesus' teachings.
So salvation by faith is also by faith and works, but salvation by works is also salvation by works and faith because you do good deeds out of faith to jesus' teachings. So, where's the difference?
Salvation by works is not the same as Salvation by faith.
Salvation by works: If I do good work, I'll go to heaven (no real need to have faith that through Jesus' death we are saved).
Salvation by faith: I believe that through Jesus' death I am forgiven thus I can go to heaven. Through this faith I will do what Jesus said (see verses posted before, note: these are only some of many).
Salvation by works: If I do good work, I'll go to heaven (no real need to have faith that through Jesus' death we are saved). Salvation by faith: I believe that through Jesus' death I am forgiven thus I can go to heaven. Through this faith I will do what Jesus said (see verses posted before, note: these are only some of many).
it seems to me though that if you have only faith, but do no good works from it, that's the equivalent of lip-service (another rising trend that I am noticing amongst christians). to be honest, I'd rather see a person get to heaven through a salvation involving both. because you can have all the faith you want, if you're a lazy D-Hole, there is no reason for you to go to heaven. that is why salvation by faith cannot work.
it seems to me though that if you have only faith, but do no good works from it, that's the equivalent of lip-service (another rising trend that I am noticing amongst christians). to be honest, I'd rather see a person get to heaven through a salvation involving both. because you can have all the faith you want, if you're a lazy D-Hole, there is no reason for you to go to heaven. that is why salvation by faith cannot work. -Blade
James 2:14-17 14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don't show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat well" but then you don't give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do? 17 So you see, faith by itself isn't enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.
You can only get to heaven by faith, and faith is dead [or non-existant] if no good deads are done. Therefore you can't really get to heaven without good deads that stem from your faith.
