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toemas
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toemas
339 posts
Farmer

Is abortion ok? I donât think so. The babies that these people are killing is wrong, some people say that itâs not a person that itâs a bag of cells or a fetus and not really human being I have to disagree

Please debate

  • 867 Replies
Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

yes they do separation of CHURCH and STATE


The church does not have the power to say, "Our followers cannot do X no matter what."

The most they can say is, "It is not in our belief to do so." So while it may be 'against' the religion to get an abortion, the church does not have the right to stop that person from getting one.

FYI, separation of church and state was primarily made so that government can't dictate what it is people believe, not to make religion an untouchable entity.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,132 posts
Jester

yes they do separation of CHURCH and STATE


the church is no longer a political organ. or at the least it shouldn't be. (dunno the state your country is in now, i guess somewhere in the middle)
all religion based laws should be gone...

======================================

on a side note, i see/feel that allot of people here "debating" are 1. virgins or 2. have no idea what the topic is really about.

i mean quotes like:
- "adoption is a great alternative."
- "whether if the fetus actually can feel the pain or consciousness is up for debate"
- "abort babies like going to the hair saloon."
- "they can't take care of children and still want to bear children. Its a matter of responibility."
- "i feel that they are capable to feel pain..."
just shows me that they are to young or not informed about the situation whatsoever.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,447 posts
Jester

yes they do separation of CHURCH and STATE

Then Church hospitals should not get any government funding. If they were completely self-sustaining, then they could make their own rules for what they give out and what services they provide. But the ones that are federally funded need to follow the government's rules. It's no different than if I say "I want a federal grant for college without going to college." Either follow the contingencies, or get no money.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,132 posts
Jester

Then Church hospitals should not get any government funding. If they were completely self-sustaining, then they could make their own rules for what they give out and what services they provide.


doctors should do what is the best for the patient and not always follow his own principles.
if a mother wants a abortion and this hospital is the only hospital nearby. then the doctors must help the woman whit getting a abortion and not deny her a abortion for their own principles.

doctors are there to help the patients. (isn't that part of the medical oath?)
so hospitals (christian or not) must have the supplies to help woman to get a abortion. and give them this help if they ask for it.
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,447 posts
Jester

Then Church hospitals should not get any government funding. If they were completely self-sustaining, then they could make their own rules for what they give out and what services they provide

nvm. That was under the old laws. Under the new Health Care bill, the private ones have to do it too.
RikJimmy00
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RikJimmy00
240 posts
Nomad

Some say yes...some say no. In my opinion is bad because that boy/girl that is born doesn't have his/her time to shine in here, maybe someone is killing the person that in 20 years could discover the way of travelling light or breathing underwater. Its a bad way of silencing people only because you were not careful with your gf/bf or husband/wife. People were created to procreate not to just have sex and enjoy of it, obviously enjoy but also keep the chain don't just break it. And apart of that, having a child is a wonderful experience and gives you some life lessons. Everybody should live high that part of life given to everybody.

Even sometimes this "abortions" are made on unhealthy places where mainly the mother is dead after some days because it was not the right place to operate her.

THINK BIG PEOPLE, NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE. START THINKING LIKE HUMANS NOT LIKE ANIMALS.

Kasic
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Kasic
5,556 posts
Jester

maybe someone is killing the person that in 20 years could discover the way of travelling light or breathing underwater.


As...whimsical as that may be, that aborted fetus/baby could just as easily have been a criminal, and more likely than not would have just been one more person to the world of no outstanding importance to those outside of friends and family.

. Its a bad way of silencing people only because you were not careful with your gf/bf or husband/wife


Silencing?

People were created to procreate not to just have sex and enjoy of it, obviously enjoy but also keep the chain don't just break it.


Proof for creation then please, because as far as I can see, people do what they want based on biological functions. Also, it's not like the human race is going to die out because some women choose to have an abortion.

Everybody should live high that part of life given to everybody.


And if they don't want that life? If they made a mistake, were *****, can't financially support it, or any other number of reasons?

Even sometimes this "abortions" are made on unhealthy places where mainly the mother is dead after some days because it was not the right place to operate her.


You're right. And you know what? Before, when abortions weren't legal, the amount of women dying alongside the aborted fetus/baby was much, much higher because people do what they want and the world be ****ed if anyone tries to stop them. All having abortion illegal does is increase the risk to the woman, increase the price, put more strain on the legal system for having to prosecute those who have abortions, and force unwanted changes onto people's lives.

THINK BIG PEOPLE, NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE. START THINKING LIKE HUMANS NOT LIKE ANIMALS.


We're thinking people, able to choose for ourselves what we want.

You would have been better off arguing that we're animals and should reproduce, at least (most) other animals don't abort. (And yes, there ARE animals that abort when the conditions are not favorable. Or become temporarily infertile. Abortion is far from unnatural.)
sensanaty
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sensanaty
1,094 posts
Nomad

People were created to procreate not to just have sex and enjoy of it, obviously enjoy but also keep the chain don't just break it


I find it fascinating that everyone who has never had sex says the exact same thing.

...maybe someone is killing the person that in 20 years could discover the way of travelling light or breathing underwater...


Or maybe you're killing someone who will kill an aditional number of people in 20 years, including it's mother at birth.

...Its a bad way of silencing people only because you were not careful with your gf/bf or husband/wife...


How is this silencing? If anything, disallowing abortions is silencing.

And apart of that, having a child is a wonderful experience and gives you some life lessons...


The only problem being not everyone can support a child, or maybe they just don't want a child. It's not that wonderful having an annoying mini-human that only sucks out your income and makes your days ever more frustrating.

Even sometimes this "abortions" are made on unhealthy places where mainly the mother is dead after some days because it was not the right place to operate her.


*cough* go to actual hospitals *cough*

THINK BIG PEOPLE, NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE. START THINKING LIKE HUMANS NOT LIKE ANIMALS.


What does that even mean?
You shouldn't forget the fact that humans are animals as well. We're just a little more intelligent (but sometimes I seriously doubt that)
HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,259 posts
Regent

Even sometimes this "abortions" are made on unhealthy places where mainly the mother is dead after some days because it was not the right place to operate her.

Since in our country abortion was made legal, the number of non-clinic abortions has pretty much disappeared. Improvised attempts in insalubre places is a result of abortion being illegal, not the inverse.

Also you should know that in medical cases, the mother does not necessarily want to abort, but she's given the choice to either give it a go and give birth, (at least if there's a high enough chance that at least the child will survive), or she chooses to not take the risks for herself and aborts. It's not just a whim, it's quite a hard decision. But if you don't give the mother that decision, if you decide on her place not to abort, and she dies - this to me is just as much murder, if not even more, than anything else.
partydevil
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partydevil
5,132 posts
Jester

People were created to procreate not to just have sex and enjoy of it,


we have been breeding like rabbits the last 200 year. the world can't take that rate for much longer anymore.
or is it our destiny to destroy the earth?

having a child is a wonderful experience and gives you some life lessons. Everybody should live high that part of life given to everybody.


i don't have kids because we think it's better to spend money on ourselves then to spend it on some kid for multiple reasons.
1. we both are to busy whit our job to care for a kid.
2. when we are free we want to do fun things whit eatch other.
3. having a kid will keep us from doing fun things.
4. fun things cost money, a kid costs money. so we have to choose.

and beside do we still get those "life lessons" because we still have family that chooses to have a kid. and are most of those life lessons just normal when you grow up. there is nothing special you can only learn from having a kid from your own.

THINK BIG PEOPLE, NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE. START THINKING LIKE HUMANS NOT LIKE ANIMALS.


human are animals.

and animals usualy don't do it for pleasure. they don't have the thinking skills for that.
so thinking like a human i mostly like the pleasure. and am i happy that i can think ahead. and take precautions for not getting a kid.
Masterforger
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Masterforger
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Peasant

we have been breeding like rabbits the last 200 year. the world can't take that rate for much longer anymore.
or is it our destiny to destroy the earth?

That, my dear sir, is a very strong point.
THINK BIG PEOPLE, NEVER FORGET WHO WE ARE. START THINKING LIKE HUMANS NOT LIKE ANIMALS.

Ironically, animals don't think about aborting. And they don't swarm over the world like rats. Actually, that's being derogatory towards rats. Humans are, in some ways, the most useless things the appear on the face of the Earth. We're destructive, self-destructive, and ignorant.

Sub note: Anyone know why my comments on my profile no longer exist???
EmperorPalpatine
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EmperorPalpatine
9,447 posts
Jester

People were created to procreate

Are polygamy and **** for that reason acceptable to you? And what about people like Octomom (14 kids + no income other than government money)? Is that the supreme example for everyone?

or is it our destiny to destroy the earth?

The usual religious argument: 'God will fix it'.

Sub note: Anyone know why my comments on my profile no longer exist???

Updates=glitches
partydevil
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partydevil
5,132 posts
Jester

The usual religious argument: 'God will fix it'.


then call it god whatever they want. their blindness doesn't show them it will be nature that will fix itself. that is ofcours after most of humanity has died.
RikJimmy00
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RikJimmy00
240 posts
Nomad

Nature cannot wait for the change, lastly humans are destructive, our nature. We will react when everything is already destroyed...

HahiHa
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HahiHa
8,259 posts
Regent

Are polygamy and **** for that reason acceptable to you? And what about people like Octomom (14 kids + no income other than government money)? Is that the supreme example for everyone?

What is wrong with polygamy? It may not conform to our western image of society, but we humans are technically polygynous by nature.
Octomom, however, is certainly not an example to follow. I mean, just look at what her situation has thrown her into. She has to do everything to get money, and it shows once again that children are an important cause for poverty.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRXt01wPZW852sN9vl0TgSG-QbhZ6FpH5oBlwzxHYx2ejITKA2d

we have been breeding like rabbits the last 200 year. the world can't take that rate for much longer anymore.
or is it our destiny to destroy the earth?

Yes, we need to consider how we handle our population. But all the (off-topic) talk about us destroying everything is just a tad overblown. I don't think we could ever destroy all life even if we wanted to. We are also not the evil some here portray us to be. We are just incredibly inconsiderate and are the cause for many extinctions, but it's all just another part of life. Nature will recover, always.
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