Forums → WEPR → Shakil afridi imprisoned for thirty years

Afghanistan is land locked and nearest of its naibours with sea (other than Pak) is your BFF Iran
and taking supplies from any other route will cost more than double of now and will be more unsafe.

You forget the invention of the airplane. Specifically, the C-5 Galaxy, C-17 Globemaster, and the C-130 Super Hercules.

You seem to have this hyper-inflated view that Pakistan is some sort of supercountry, and that without it the US will collapse. Unfortunately you couldn't be further from the truth.

You forget the invention of the airplane. Specifically, the C-5 Galaxy, C-17 Globemaster, and the C-130 Super Hercules.

Tell me how much will it cost using this mode of transportation?

You seem to have this hyper-inflated view that Pakistan is some sort of super country, and that without it the US will collapse. Unfortunately you couldn't be further from the truth.

US will not colapse but continuing operation in aghanistan will cost very dearly to USA.
ans it will be impossible to win this with out our help.

Tell me how much will it cost using this mode of transportation?

The same as when Pakistan allowed them the use of their airfields. The only difference is that they would be flying out of other airfields than those in Pakistan.

ans it will be impossible to win this with out our help.

Given Pakistan's minor role in military operations, I'd say that the US would do just fine without you. Or have you forgotten Neptune's Spear?

The same as when Pakistan allowed them the use of their airfields. The only difference is that they would be flying out of other airfields than those in Pakistan.

Do you think supplies went by air?

Given Pakistan's minor role in military operations, I'd say that the US would do just fine without you. Or have you forgotten Neptune's Spear?

Oh we have not,
neither should you
this tells what happens if you go behind your friends back.

Given Pakistan's minor role in military operations,

3,097 of our soldiers and 40,309 total have died
in your war.
and its not just the military role of ours, there also is political role too.

Do you think supplies went by air?

You're right, how silly of me. They were put onto the backs of magical unicorns and they rode the rainbows over there.

Oh we have not,
neither should you

It's rather hard to forget the operation that took out the most wanted man in the world.

And I wouldn't expect Pakistan to forget it either. After all, I'd think it would be rather hard to forget a high-level US official saying that the reason why the US didn't tell Pakistan was because they didn't believe that Pakistan could keep a secret for "more than a nanosecond."

this tells what happens if you go behind your friends back.

So here you're saying that Pakistan is America's 'friend', but then earlier in this discussion you say, in response to macfan's saying "Pakistan is not and never will be a friendly nation to the US", that:

This goes both ways

Care to make up your mind? Or will you let the hypocrisy go unchecked?

3,097 of our soldiers and 40,309 total have died
in your war

Your point being? I stand by the fact that Pakistan plays a minor role in the Middle East. From the same Wikipedia page, Pakistan has recieved 18 Billion USD from 2001 to 2010 to assist in counter-terrorism operations. Beginning in 2005, Pakistan has also recieved annual 600 Million USD to be split evenly between military and economic aid. President Obama in 2009 then increased the amount of economic aid to 1.5 Billion USD per annum. Not to mention the US has supplied Pakistan on several occasions F-16s and Smart Bomb kits.

But, funny thing about the jets: You can't play with your toys without 24-hour surveillance by the US. That stinks.

So if Pakistan trys to be a big boy and throw its weight around, you can fully expect the first thing to happen will be an immediate halt in your aid. ANd then the US will just go to another ally, your BFF (as you put it) India.

Shakil Afridi is a hero. He was our key to killing Osama Bin Laden, and if Pakistan was truly an American ally, they would not be imprisoning him. His imprisonment is illegal (the jurisdiction of the tribal "court" was incorrect), his trial was a farce (he was not allowed to defend himself), and he was thrown in prison simply because he gave aid to the Americans.

This goes both ways

How about that U.S. aid package? $33 million lighter now, isn't it. You guys aren't an ally of ours. If you didn't have the Khyber Pass, we wouldn't really need you.

So american! can't even spell the guy's name right, the very same guy who is in trouble for helping you

What does that have anything to do with this? Oh no! He made a typo! This means that everything that he posts is now discredited!!!!

Pakistan really needs to examine its priorities on this one. Would they rather have gobs and gobs of aid money? Or throw an innocent man in prison. It's your choice.

Shakil Afridi is a hero. He was our key to killing Osama Bin Laden, and if Pakistan was truly an American ally, they would not be imprisoning him. His imprisonment is illegal (the jurisdiction of the tribal "court" was incorrect), his trial was a farce (he was not allowed to defend himself), and he was thrown in prison simply because he gave aid to the Americans.

He might be a hero in the eyes of Americans, but in those of the Pakistanis, he isn't. Simply put, he embodies treason. Spying for foreigners is a punishable offence, and America itself has in the past moved to act against its own citizens who spy for others. Whether his trial is a sham is another issue; that doesn't absolve him of his illegal actions.

So here you're saying that Pakistan is America's 'friend', but then earlier in this discussion you say, in response to macfan's saying "Pakistan is not and never will be a friendly nation to the US", that:

This goes both ways

Care to make up your mind? Or will you let the hypocrisy go unchecked?

What I said to macfan is my own view and what I said to you is what officials are doing

And I wouldn't expect Pakistan to forget it either. After all, I'd think it would be rather hard to forget a high-level US official saying that the reason why the US didn't tell Pakistan was because they didn't believe that Pakistan could keep a secret for "more than a nanosecond."

Now that's a childish thing, on one side they want to be friends and on other they hesitate to trust.

You're right, how silly of me. They were put onto the backs of magical unicorns and they rode the rainbows over there.

Yes, silly you, they use trucks

So if Pakistan trys to be a big boy and throw its weight around, you can fully expect the first thing to happen will be an immediate halt in your aid. ANd then the US will just go to another ally, your BFF (as you put it) India.

And how you think INDIA will supply?
by air?
guess what they'll have to cross our aerospace

Your point being? I stand by the fact that Pakistan plays a minor role in the Middle East. From the same Wikipedia page, Pakistan has recieved 18 Billion USD from 2001 to 2010 to assist in counter-terrorism operations. Beginning in 2005, Pakistan has also recieved annual 600 Million USD to be split evenly between military and economic aid. President Obama in 2009 then increased the amount of economic aid to 1.5 Billion USD per annum. Not to mention the US has supplied Pakistan on several occasions F-16s and Smart Bomb kits.

But, funny thing about the jets: You can't play with your toys without 24-hour surveillance by the US. That stinks.

That's the least u can do for helping you.

How about that U.S. aid package? $33 million lighter now, isn't it. You guys aren't an ally of ours. If you didn't have the Khyber Pass, we wouldn't really need you.

We've seen worse

Or throw an innocent man in prison

Correction
Or throw a traitor/foreign spy in prison

He might be a hero in the eyes of Americans, but in those of the Pakistanis, he isn't

He really ought to be a hero to anyone who is against terrorism, or atleast al-Qaeda.

Spying for foreigners is a punishable offence

True, but he wasn't exactly spying. It sayshere this his work for the CIA involved setting up a fake vaccination program to gather DNA to confirm Bin Laden's prescence in the city. If treason is willfully working for another government against your own, then Afridi isn't guilty of treason; Pakistan plays a role in the War on Terror, albeit a minor one, and so is against the Taliban, al-Qaeda, and all those other wonderful groups.

Besides, Afridi isn't a Rosenburg.

Whether his trial is a sham is another issue

He was convicted forconsorting with Lashkar-e-Islam, a banned militant group. Oddly enough, the commander of the group said that "We have no link to such a shameless man. If we see him we'll chew him alive." The Pakistani government is saying that his ties with the CIA had nothing to do with it, but the whole thing is fishy.

that doesn't absolve him of his illegal actions.

I'm reminded of when NATO bombed Serbia in the early '90s. Since they didn't have authorization from the UN Security Council, it was an illegal act of aggression. But the bombing brought a swift end to the conflict and the ethnic cleansing being carried out. While Afridi 'technically' did something that was illegal, you need to look at whether a) The punishment fits the crime, and b) The result of the crime justified the crime itself.

on one side they want to be friends and on other they hesitate to trust

But can you blame them? If you want to be friends, perhaps you ought to live up to the meager expectations you're given.

Yes, silly you, they use trucks

1) And how do you suppose the supplies got to the trucks? You can't drive trucks over an ocean.

2) Pakistan is not the sole route through which supplies reach Afghanistan.

guess what they'll have to cross our aerospace

Because it's not like they can just go around. Pakistan is a relatively small country; only a small detour would be needed. And besides, if we did cross your airspace, what would you do about it?

That's the least u can do for helping you.

You have a GDP of 201 Billion USD And, from the same source, 1/5th of your economy is based on agriculture and it employs 2/5th of your workforce. 13% of your populace lives in Poverty according to the UN, and the Pakistani Rupee has deprecieated 40% in the last five years.

Buddy, you need all the help you can get. No US Economic Aid means that the **** would really hit the fan.

Or throw a traitor/foreign spy in prison

See my above post.

1) And how do you suppose the supplies got to the trucks? You can't drive trucks over an ocean.

2) Pakistan is not the sole route through which supplies reach Afghanistan.

I said it first.

Because it's not like they can just go around. Pakistan is a relatively small country; only a small detour would be needed. And besides, if we did cross your airspace, what would you do about it?

It all boils doqwn to how much will it cost?
and we can shoot down your planes.
if we have'nt, its not because we can't but because u r considered our allies.

You have a GDP of 201 Billion USD And, from the same source, 1/5th of your economy is based on agriculture and it employs 2/5th of your workforce. 13% of your populace lives in Poverty according to the UN, and the Pakistani Rupee has deprecieated 40% in the last five years.

Buddy, you need all the help you can get. No US Economic Aid means that the **** would really hit the fan.

If not for this war, we were doing OK
and a little bit of economic shock will help wakening thiis nation.
also we've seen worse.
[quote

]I'm reminded of when NATO bombed Serbia in the early '90s. Since they didn't have authorization from the UN Security Council, it was an illegal act of aggression. But the bombing brought a swift end to the conflict and the ethnic cleansing being carried out. While Afridi 'technically' did something that was illegal, you need to look at whether a) The punishment fits the crime, and b) The result of the crime justified the crime itself.

His fate is sealed
he is more of a statement made by Army to other ppl who have such thoughts in mind.
no matter what the out come is, he spied for another government.

True, but he wasn't exactly spying. It sayshere this his work for the CIA involved setting up a fake vaccination program to gather DNA to confirm Bin Laden's prescence in the city. If treason is willfully working for another government against your own, then Afridi isn't guilty of treason;

So, how you think spies do their work?
They knock on doors and ask for intel?
the fact he went behind Pak govrn's back to help a foreign gov is enough to put a treason charge on him.

I said it first

Sorry? But since you responded to the transportation issue, I think I should call your attention to the first line of the link you put up:

There are two routes from Pakistan to Afghanistan (both were closed in November 2011[4]).

My emphasis. Now, the last time I checked, the military operations in Afghanistan have been going on before November 2011, during November 2011, and after November 2011. In fact, they've been going on since November 2011 to this current date.

But, how can this be? As you've said before, the Pakistani supply lines are crucial to the war efforts in Afghanistan, and without them the entire military campaign might fall apart!

Theres a simple conclusion to this Punisher. It's that, despite all your claims and fairy-tales, Pakistan is NOT that crucial to the war effort. Pakistan is NOT a significant player on the world stage. I reiterate it: Pakistan plays a MINOR ROLE which has only gotten smaller with the closing of those supply routes.

And, from the exact same wikipedia page,an alternate route transports 40% of the suppliesm, as oppossed to 30% from Pakistan. (I'm sure the figures have changed seeing that the Pakistan Route is no longer valid.)

It all boils doqwn to how much will it cost?

Not much, seeing as the usage of the afformentioned cargo transports would already be factored into the defense spending.

and we can shoot down your planes.

Just like you shot down those Blackhawks back in May of last year, right? And have you forgotten allready that the US has your F-16s on 24-hour surveillance? The moment the jets are scrambled for an intercept, we'd know about it.

If not for this war, we were doing OK
and a little bit of economic shock will help wakening thiis nation.
also we've seen worse.

Right, because the link you posted earlier seems to be telling a different story.

It's one thing to have a bit of an economic shock. It's something else completely to have all aid stopped, be faced with economic sanctions, and be at war with the most powerful military on the face of the earth. You haven't seen anything like that buddy.

His fate is sealed
he is more of a statement made by Army to other ppl who have such thoughts in mind.
no matter what the out come is, he spied for another government.

If anything, his fate is called into question. And the only message your Army is sending (which makes no sense, as the Pakistani Army had very little to do with the trial and other proceedings) is that it's perfectly OK to sit on your hands while the enemies of your country go about on their nefarious business.

Again, how did he spy? Did he steal nuclear weapons secrets? Did he set up cameras around military installations? Did he hack into the Pakistaini President's Twitter account? He helped the CIA take down the most wanted man in the world, not work against the government of his country.

the fact he went behind Pak govrn's back to help a foreign gov is enough to put a treason charge on him.

The fact that the Pakistani government can't keep intel secret shouldn't be taken out on an innocent man, nor another nation's government. This is an issue with the Pakistani government, and one that should be dealt quickly as opposed to pointing fingers at scapegoats and going about on witch hunts.

It's one thing to have a bit of an economic shock. It's something else completely to have all aid stopped, be faced with economic sanctions, and be at war with the most powerful military on the face of the earth.

AMerica simply can't afford another war.
and also our economy was kind of recovering and getting independent but.............

Sorry? But since you responded to the transportation issue, I think I should call your attention to the first line of the link you put up:

There are two routes from Pakistan to Afghanistan (both were closed in November 2011[4]).

My emphasis. Now, the last time I checked, the military operations in Afghanistan have been going on before November 2011, during November 2011, and after November 2011. In fact, they've been going on since November 2011 to this current date.

But, how can this be? As you've said before, the Pakistani supply lines are crucial to the war efforts in Afghanistan, and without them the entire military campaign might fall apart!

Theres a simple conclusion to this Punisher. It's that, despite all your claims and fairy-tales, Pakistan is NOT that crucial to the war effort. Pakistan is NOT a significant player on the world stage. I reiterate it: Pakistan plays a MINOR ROLE which has only gotten smaller with the closing of those supply routes.

And, from the exact same wikipedia page,an alternate route transports 40% of the suppliesm, as oppossed to 30% from Pakistan. (I'm sure the figures have changed seeing that the Pakistan Route is no longer valid.)

Question is not "can they or can't they?"
But its "for how long?"

Not much, seeing as the usage of the afformentioned cargo transports would already be factored into the defense spending.

????????????????????????????

Just like you shot down those Blackhawks back in May of last year, right? And have you forgotten allready that the US has your F-16s on 24-hour surveillance? The moment the jets are scrambled for an intercept, we'd know about it.

As I said B4, we were not ready, becoz u were considered ally.
Also do you think we only have F-16s?

He helped the CIA take down the most wanted man in the world,

Exactly for this,
the question is why did not he helped ISI or took permission from his own government b4 assisting CIA
you seem to have a wrong idea about espionage, go look it up.
You talk about hypocrisy?
That's Hypocrisy
you do something
and stop others from doing it.
and if you still think he is innocent then this can only be chalked up to american ignorance and hypocrisy.
********************End of Story*****************************

You forget the invention of the airplane

i guess you forgot the international law of airspace?
you can't just fly over countrys when they don't want you to. if you do, they are allowed to shoot you down.

america is unable to get on whit the war for much longer when your military supplys are going to cost alot more. hack your already almost at the max. if pakistan becomes your enemy then you will get another financile crisis sonner. 1 where you wont be able to get money from other countrys to bail yourself out of it.